Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

"slur".

Treat trans people with respect and people won't be so quick to jump on you. They exist and have done so for decades, whether your narrow-minded brain believes it or not.

I'm sure you'll come back with stuff about beliefs and whatever but if you don't want to be classed as a bigot then back it up with your words instead of your excuses.

This sort of thing is the epitome of gaslighting nonsense, and that's not a word I throw around lightly, but in this circumstance it's entirely appropriate. It's you is doing the classification, it's you who needs to take responsibility for it. Attempting to frame people who don't share your opinions, values or beliefs as bigots, sets the bar so low as to render the term meaningless.

And I'd advise you to read this thread. Plenty of times people refuse to refer to Lia Thomas as a trans woman and then saying they're not bigoted.

And that's an entirely reasonable stance, because they're not conflating two completely separate things. I wouldn't refer to Lia Thomas as a 'trans woman', because the concept makes no sense, it shouldn't be taken as an indication that I would treat Lia Thomas as a person any differently than I would treat anyone else. It means only that I do not share their opinions, values or beliefs. If they insist that I should, without any recognition of the fact that I don't, then it's they who are engaging in bigotry. I don't care either way so I'm not going to point that out to them, I'm pointing it out to you seeing as you brought it up is all.

Same people would be up in arms about trans women in female spaces but yet when it comes to the real issues that threaten women every single day, there isn't a dickiebird from any of them.

Who gets to decide what are the real issues that threaten women every single day, if not women themselves? I'd love to see you attempt to square that circular logic in such a way that it would be you should get to decide what are the real issues that threaten women every single day. I don't have cojones the size of medicine balls, and if I did, I still wouldn't tell any woman what I think are the real issues which threaten women every single day. Instead, having listened to the many, many women over the years who have posted on here on just Boards.ie alone, about several issues which they feel threatened by, of which this is just one, I can tell you for a fact that your characterisation is complete nonsense. I racked my brain for a more polite way to put that, but to be honest I came up short.

William /Lia Thomas competed as a male, hence ‘he’ and then transitioned to female, hence ‘she’ , and as we’re comparing times raced in the men’s and the woman’s categories, I think using both pronouns is appropriate.

Also, use of preferred pronouns isn’t mandatory, and if one chooses not to use them for someone who is violating women’s boundaries and subjecting them to sexual harassment, as Lia did when he insisted on changing with the women swimmers and exposing his penis to them, then I really don’t think it’s bigoted to use properly sexed pronouns. Same as I wouldn’t feel obliged to use them to describe a rapist like Isla Bryson.

I think you are making the thread out to be something it just isn't, and you are intentionally making a mountain out of a molehill.

The whole point of this is males competing in females sports, simple. We have people who deny basic scientific evidence in the name of feelings, and questioning the idea of "fairness" and totally missing the point of this.

Again, this isn't a bash fest. If you don't like what someone has to say, so be it. Just don't label the whole thread as such, it does nothing for your position.

They wouldn’t have been there if they weren’t selected. That they had any advantage at all over their competition was clearly demonstrated to be false. I wouldn’t suggest it provides convincing evidence of anything either way, and certainly not rising to the level where it could be considered scientific evidence that would lead to a conclusion supporting the new eligibility rules applied by the IOC for the upcoming Games in LA.

Yes Laurel Hubbard came last at the Olympics. How did she go at the world champs? At the Commonwealth championship? At the Pacific championships? At the NZ championships? Dead last in all those?

Thousands of years of evolution have led humans to involuntarily determine whether a person is male or female at a simple glance, pretty much from birth. I dont know why some people think that this innate ability can be overridden in a matter of a few years just because a handful of people feel that on the inside they are the opposite sex to their bodies.

The ability to distinguish between things is involuntary and innate; being taught what those things are called - not so much. It’s not so much how anyone feels on the inside either as it is the brain processing internal and external information; human beings, like every other animal, don’t have any choice in the matter. As human beings though, they do have a choice in how they wish to refer to themselves and other people.

It’s not even a question of chicken or egg as to whether civilisations and societies evolved from the concept of deciding how people are to be treated based upon characteristics which were allocated value by disparate groups of people. That’s innate too, overcome by a system of laws and government which ensure social order is maintained… for as long as they can possibly get away with it anyway.

There’s no use whatsoever in telling me I have no clue about competitive sports, when the only way that could possibly be true is by your choosing to ignore the influence of the selection process as to how Hubbard got a spot on the women’s team in the first place. It’s not rocket science we’re talking about here, you’re just unwilling to accept reality, and you want me to do the same.

There’s no point in us repeating ourselves ad nauseum either - going up against women who have trained for the event doesn’t prove anything, let alone what you term ‘a male advantage’, and even less so when in reality, Hubbard was simply outclassed in every respect by better athletes on the day. What you’re doing is no different than the tabloid rags having spent weeks leading up to the event waiting for Hubbard to walk away with gold, and being disappointed that they didn’t, still tried to make something of it, ignoring the fact that the other athletes present had beaten Hubbard in a fair competition.

The NZOC, the IWF and the IOC, by your logic, must be lacking in an understanding of physiology, basic science, and have no clue about competitive sports either. Indeed, that does seem like the most reasonable explanation 🤔

Only kidding Frank, it’s not even remotely plausible 😂

Ah yes, because sports organisations are the bastion of good decision making…

Whatever else they are, they’re the bastions of organised competition in sports. It’s not your decision as to whether or not the selection process was wrong, there’s absolutely no confusion on my part about that.

And as for the reality that males have advantages over females? I wouldn’t use those terms, I’d simply refer to men and women, and it’s an absolute certainty that men do have advantages over women in organised competitions in sports. Several of those advantages are by design, very few have anything to do with natural selection.

Who governs the organisation of sports competitions in their respective sports? Those pesky sports organisations that haven’t a clue what they’re doing… well, according to you anyway, no sense in dragging everyone else down to your level -