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How many of us think that unification is no longer a priority and don't really want unification ?

12357

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,696 ✭✭✭yagan


    What about the unionists?

    The uup signed up the belfast agreement.

    The ultra Calvinist planter types will just withdraw from society, like the anabapists after the commune of Münster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Benedict XVI


    As long as they don't do to the north what the anabaptists did to Münster we will be ok.

    In reality unionism will have dwindled by the time a referendum comes around that it will hardly be relevant.

    In 2011 there was 39.9% saying they identified as British Only in the census.

    By 2021 that was down to 31.9%, that's a massive drop and it's only going in one direction.

    Unionists famiels have been getting smaller for years and the kids tend to go to university or get work outside of NI and never come back.

    They are literally dying out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Benedict XVI


    Otherwise we could be in for a messy divorce down the road.

    And where exactly would NI go after this messy divorce?

    It's not viable as a independent state, and it could hardly go back to the UK.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,208 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Look at the way politics is heading in the Western world. All the old certainties are going out the window and we would be foolish to think we are immune just because we’ve been lucky so far. The UK itself might be on its way to breaking up by then. Now imagine a populist government in Dublin that decided NI was too costly or troublesome and wanted a divorce. NI mightn’t get a say at all.

    The process has to be serious with all the potential problems properly considered. It will be the most momentous decision ever taken by the electorate on the island. As I say, selling the idea will not be enough if things go wrong afterwards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,511 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    @Ardillaun

    Given the unique gravity of the decision, supporters of UI will have to do more than sell the idea and win a political campaign.

    eh?

    Supporters will have to win a democratic referendum.
    That is the only bar to get over. There vis no hidden ('do more than') level once the dempcratic test is met.

    Post edited by FrancieBrady on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    I support eventual unity but I would much prefer if a more moderate Nationalist party were the main one in Northern Ireland. I think SF are too tribal.

    I think a United Ireland would be affordable but might require reforms of the public sector. The UK has failed to reform it due to political resistance in NI. I suspect this issue might come up in a referendum up there. I think Catholic public sector workers will be an important swing vote.

    I think an obstacle to getting a yes vote will be the different visions of Unity - or indeed absence of any - from today's FF and FG. Leo Varadkar does have some vision of it but I sense FG as a whole is less interested in it than him. He was the first FG leader to talk a lot about it in my lifetime.

    I think mostly, Catholics will vote in favour and Protestants against in NI. But think Catholics in the public sector are more of a swing vote. They will need to be reassured on issues like public sector pensions.

    I will most likely vote "Yes", but I am concerned that the slow decisionmaking on issues like planning down here, if introduced in Northern Ireland, would be vulnerable to insinuations from both communities of the kind that happens in NI when decisions like upgrading Casement Park are made. I don't think we would decide something on a sectarian basis, but I think Unionists already distrustful of Nationalist Ireland might suspect otherwise if we took decisions they didn't like.

    Polls down here show a lack of support for rejoining the Commonwealth (around 20% or less in some polls). Also less than 50% support for changing the flag or anthem. I think we will need to have something to offer the Unionists or there will be few yes voters among them.

    Also the NHS keeps coming up as a big issue for swing voters in Northern Ireland, including many Catholics. BBC did a show some time ago where both communities indicated it was a big issue.

    Post edited by Ozymandius2011 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    Not really on topic but how have you not got a GP in 2 years?

    I've lived in 3 different areas in Dublin in the past 4 years and it's been fine to get one in them all, 2 calls max.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭csirl


    The NHS in N.I. costs less per capita than the HSE. In theory it should be easy to fix this issue to everyones benefit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,557 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    Is there a form of Irish Unity that would be more appealing to the Unionists?

    A Federal Ireland of the Republic and the North, maybe the 6 counties can remain in the Commonwealth and be a full member of the EU.

    Unionists will still be british and keep all their traditions etc…

    I think reunification will happen - it just wont look like some SF heads think it will…

    "SUBSCRIBE TO BOARDS YOU TIGHT CÙNT".....Plato 400 B.C



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭purplepanda


    Every Shinner I know just assumes that their party will run the government in the event of an United Ireland. The calculations from both opinion polls & election results over recent years would suggest otherwise.

    SF might well be the biggest party, but there would more be than enough elected representatives of other parties to form a coalition government. I could see the Alliance & SDLP joining with FF/FG, the Unionist parties would keep out of government but constantly thwart any attempts by SF to gain power. SF & the far left parties would struggle, as usual to agree amongst themselves.

    I have even heard SF supporters saying that only they should decide a UI & only they should run it. How exactly they hope to achieve that they obviously won't elaborate on at the moment. I suspect they mean by some anti democratic method? They despise the "Free State" after all, including it's Defence Forces.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Benedict XVI




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,511 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I have even heard SF supporters saying that only they should decide a UI & only they should run it.

    Can you quote a single one saying this?

    The days of SF 'despising the Free State' are as long gone as the days that FF hated partition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Leopards do not change their spots. Sinn Fein has only had 2 leaders in the past 43 years, both decided many would say by backroom men in Belfast.

    Show me another country in the world where a political party has only had 2 leaders in 43 years? Were they elected transparently? Not very healthy, do not tell me it is, or that they have changed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭purplepanda


    Their politicians obviously don't make these comments, it's many of their supporters, particularly the barstool republican types. I have many SF friends & I often hear this on my travels. Another mantra seems to be why does the "Free State" need an army or want to to modernise & upgrade the Defence Forces? After all, we've got The Ra! FFS!

    I've got serious issues with those that undermine & despise Irelands defence forces personally.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,511 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So we can take it this is just anecdotal tittle tattle.

    If you have 'serious issues' 'personally' why are you 'friends' with 'many' of these people.

    Something ain't adding up here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    People can often have work colleagues etc or in-laws who they have no option but to be "friends" with, have chatted about things with. I would have issues too with a party whose military arm was, for example, associated with the murder of Gardai / Irish army in the past. Or their supporters saying the Northern bank robbery was just a little fundraiser for the lads pensions or something like that, and laughing it off / justifying it. Or their supporters saying there was no alternative to the Enniskillen bomb etc. Until they condemn ./ dis-associate themselves from their wrong-doing that cloud will always be there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,511 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I don't have any 'friends' that I have 'serious' issues with.

    Maybe the poster needs to be more careful when making stuff up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,696 ✭✭✭yagan


    I think it's more that the kids of PUL are more likely to go to GB for uni and then settle elsewhere, whereas Irish are likely to attend uni on the island and then stay.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Purplepanda said he or she has "serious issues with those that undermine & despise Irelands defence forces personally."

    You might not have, but then you are a S.F. supporter. You never even had serious issues with those who planted thousands of bombs in N.I., who carried out "the armed struggle", ffs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,877 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    That might actually be the best way to handle unification: after a period of NI being an independent state.

    Let them suffer through the consequences of their having elected piss poor politicians for decades and learn to reign in their Public Sector via mass redundancies, attract FDI and encourage domestic entrepeneurial efforts for a decade or two and then they'd be in a better position to seek to join the rest of the island instead of coming cap-in-hand to ask the Republic to bail them out.

    A period of independence should result in far better government with less religious nuts and armchair freedom fighters being elected as the electorate would be forced to start looking at politicians (and potentially new political parties) more interested in governing a country than squabbling amongst themselves.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,511 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Purplepanda I am sure, can speak for themselves, and is unable to verify via quotes or backup anything they have claimed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,511 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    NI has failed because of a stupid act of partition. That partition almost ruptured the UK also and may very well still do if stability cannot be restored in UK politics. Throwing NI to the disaster independence would be is pure irresponsibility, the same irresponsibility that led to it going up in flames before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,696 ✭✭✭yagan


    Honestly I can't see ni feature prominently in British politics, aside from maybe a long shot reform/tory/dup coalition which would be as much a melter as Theresa May's hamstrung government.

    The northern calvanists were happy to buy guns from Germany to defy London before but I can't see them trying another armed struggle against secularism.

    They're very much on the path to auto ghettoization.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,877 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    NI has survived on the life-support of British "generosity". I have no desire to be part of the tax-paying public picking up the tab for the population of NI's inability to elect responsible politicians or to wean themselves off the tit of the British public purse.

    There'd be great suffering in the early years of an independent NI (hundreds of thosands of layoffs in the public sector would inevitably cause that) but I'm sure we, the EU and hopefully whatever remained of the UK would contribute foreign development aid to alleviate the worst of it. I (and I suspect the majority of the electorate in the Republic if unification were ever to be looked at seriously rather than through a romantic lens) have no desire to join them in that suffering. Suffering which would be inevitable in any United Ireland involving the NI in it's current state.

    NI has had a century since partition. We in the Republic suffered through the first fifty years and eventually learned how to manage our own affairs (for the most part), when they learn to stop squabbling over religion and history best left in the past, they should learn the same lessons and be in a position to discuss unification as partners rather than beggars.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,511 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It is precisely because it doesn't feature and is ignored/not cared about in Westminster that almost destroyed the UK itself and has caused far reaching instability. Nobody considered that partition would come back to bite them hard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    N. Ireland currently has the best of both worlds : access to the EU market as well as access to the UK market, tariff free. It also currently has the benefit of NATO protection. (something the Swedes and in Finnish people cherish dearly, those two countries having recently joined). Also access to the commonwealth, which some people there like, and is not a burden to those who do not want it. So many things, bit like Brexit, it is not as easy as people thought.

    If there was a U.I., good luck with telling northerners their house prices will be higher ( vat on housing here, none in N.I.) , GP visits @ €65 or €70 (free up north) etc.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 5,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭irish_goat


    Free GP visits are useless if you can't get an appointment…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,052 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    The shinners are always banging on about a UI.

    I think a border poll will happen but it will be 15 to 20 years before it it is called.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    GP appointments in the North are free of charge for residents registered with a GP practice as part of the Health and Social Care (HSC) service.

    Approximately 200,000+ appointments/contacts occur weekly across Northern Ireland GP practices

    Here many people in the squeezed middle simply cannot afford to go to the doctor.



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