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Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,647 ✭✭✭✭Eod100




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Pre Christmas, but that could be October or December.

    I'm happy they've made the PuC game optional for TP season ticket holders. It would definitely have cost them a lot of season tickets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,315 ✭✭✭✭phog


    We actually scored more tries than the Bulls but they had penalty kicks at goal too, one of Jack's conversions rebounded off the post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,647 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Wonder what the price difference will be but guess it was more about the principle anyway



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,034 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Because it's a shite place for a rugby match. With that being said, season ticket holders are no longer going to be forced to go, so that's a positive



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    GT Article in IT - Reads like boot firmly going into Munster Branch 'Hierarchy'

    Cut & Paste parts of article below fyi

    https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/2026/03/31/munster-rugby-has-been-mismanaged-for-years-the-chickens-are-now-coming-home-to-roost/

    Eight-pointers abound on Munster’s run-in, which sees them take on Benetton (away), Ulster (home), Connacht (away) and the Lions (home). On Saturday, Munster are away to Exeter in the Challenge Cup round of 16. It’s a competition they cannot be too sniffy about, not least as winning it is another avenue into next season’s Champions Cup.

    The importance of achieving that basic goal was underlined by the Munster Branch revealing last week that they were offering a voluntary redundancy programme for staff members in addition to further trimming their playing budget. Given they seem to have been losing money annually for a decade, the wonder is this didn’t happen sooner.

    Last Tuesday, Munster chief executive Ian Flanagan hosted a virtual meeting with the entire staff – including the playing squad and backroom team who were in South Africa – outlining this programme.

    The Irish Examiner reported that just one question was asked of Flanagan. This was a query about the likelihood of compulsory redundancies if the voluntary programme is under-subscribed. His response was, apparently, along the lines of “we have to wait and see”.

    — - — - — - —

    Chickens are coming home to roost after years of mismanagement. Munster provided 11 homegrown players to the Irish matchday squad that completed the Grand Slam in Cardiff 17 years ago, including six starting forwards, another two on the bench, both halfbacks and the backup scrumhalf.

    — - — - — - —

    One feels a certain sympathy for Clayton McMillan, a good coach whose hard-nosed approach has been more popular with some than others. But there is far more disquiet with the Munster Branch hierarchy, not least among former players. Conor Murray, for one, expressed as much with a critique of the organisation in his biography.

    The departure at the end of the season of the homegrown Mike Prendergast, who was overlooked to succeed Graham Rowntree despite building an extensive coaching portfolio, is simply an awful look for the province. It’s clear too that his influence is less pronounced this season, which can only have added to his frustration.

    The emergence of the Edogbo brothers is timely, but the Munster Branch and the IRFU stand indicted for the lack of succession planning, stretching back about eight to 10 years ago and notably in relation to tight-five forwards. It’s been over 20 years since Munster produced a homegrown prop.

    The decline of the schools’ game (this season’s vintage PBC Cork team excepted) in Cork and Limerick is partially down to a heightened focus on hurling, while the alarming decline in the club game in both cities is partly down to socio-economic factors and migration to Dublin. All of this explains why the IRFU have sought to invest some of the money saved in culling the men’s sevens programme directly into the schools.

    The Bulls-bound Thaakir Abrahams, Gloucester-bound Jean Kleyn and Michael Ala’alatoa are all moving on, and with another generation of high-profile players having retired in recent years, the team lacks poster boys. A huge weight rests on Beirne, Casey and Crowley.

    Munster need more than voluntary redundancies. They need a reboot, as a declining Munster is not only bad for the province, but also for Irish rugby.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,785 ✭✭✭50HX


    Disagree completely on the Prendergast point on being over looked.

    Classic oh he's irish so he should be good enough.

    Maybe just maybe he's a good coach but doesn't possess the attributes to be head coach...its a different skillset.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4 learningtime


    "It’s been over 20 years since Munster produced a homegrown prop." GT . Astonishing fact & symptomatic of the really difficult road ahead.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    That's not actually true though. You might question the quality and quantity, but none of Kilcoyne, Cronin, Archer or Ryan were playing for Munster 20 years ago. Josh Wycherley and Liam O'Connor were still in primary school.

    If he'd made the less hyperbolic point that Munster haven't produced a decent tight head in the last decade then I might take him more seriously.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭Pepp1989


    There is very little journalistic work in that piece.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    The Mike Prendergast thing is very "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

    If we keep him, it's not ideal because McMillan can't bring in his own people and put his own stamp on things - the comments about "yes men" and "jobs for the boys" start coming in.

    If we lose him, it's apparently a bad look, despite McMillan being acknowledged as a good coach with a great NZ reputation (and previous head coaching experience, something MP does not have).

    Paper never denied ink, I suppose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭Stanley 1


    Might well be the arrival of the billionaire, Dyson, to Bath as a 50% shareholder, takes away many of the financial problems that exist around Munster, these rich men, like Wray at Sarries are very adept at bending the rules, Prendo might have more freedom.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,785 ✭✭✭50HX


    That may well be the case & best of luck to him but once he went for the top gig & didnt get it then I think its the right move for all involved that he moved on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 645 ✭✭✭CONSI


    Munster are losing out on average 21k ticket sales each year by having games in Cork, so the PUC game is only making up that shortfall.

    Average attendances in Thomond park (excl Leinster game) for URC games (exclusing QF and Semi final a few years back so just league games) is 15,305 (last 2 seasons)…Average attendance in Musgrave is 8,386. So we are happy to do ourselves out of 21k ticket sales each year. 21000 tickets x €30 (average) is €630,000. We are not making that back on a game in PUC. The two stadium and two city approach isnt working. Different for Leinster, RDS and Aviva are beside each other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    The typical "Musgrave games" which are usually Welsh and Italian teams or the Lions or Edinburgh get much lower attendances than 15k when held in Thomond; this year Zebre got 12k, Cardiff got 12.5k, last year the Lions got 11k, Scarlets got 13k. So you are looking at an average of about 12k, not 15k. On top of that there are only 2 games in Musgrave now that there is a game in PUC so its about 5k shortfall in ticket sales or 150k which is more than made up for by having a game in PUC.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    That's not how averages work. 16.5k were at the Connacht game and 26k at Leinster. The URC average after 5 games is 16.3k.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Munster have never hosted Connacht or Leinster at Musgrave post Thomond expansion. It's obviously ridiculous to use the average including those games if you are calculating lost revenue (even the OP didn't include Leinster). If you were to close Musgrave you would be moving two Welsh, Scottish, Italian or South African games to Thomond, those fixtures typically pull around 12k in Thomond.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Except Stormers had 14.4k this season and Bulls 14.7k last season.

    The season before that Stormers had 15k and Cardiff had 15.4k.

    The season before that Ospreys pulled in 14k and Glasgow 17k.

    So no, fixtures against Scottish, Welsh and SA teams don't only pull in around 12k in Thomond



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,785 ✭✭✭50HX


    Also have to factor in the cost of running the thomond park stadium at say 10k v full house in Musgrave...i suspect Musgrave is cheaper to run v a 40% capacity in thomond



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    It was always more than likely he was going to leave after openly putting his hand up for HC.

    Signed a new deal in Nov 2024-Hat in the ring Dec 2024-McMillan announced Feb 2025

    It was a bit of a weird sequence of events. (I agree - McMillan was the better choice)

    1st priority is getting a quality replacement - McMillan MUST be given the green light here.

    2nd priority is getting props - Ala'alatoa was never going to cut it & its been very disappointing.

    ….were offering a voluntary redundancy programme for staff members in addition to further trimming their playing budget.

    This must impact on the quality that they can get. Desperately need props than can scrummage. A couple of loan deals (!Dian Bleuler!) would really help.

    Post edited by ionadnapóca on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    so are you suggesting that no games should be played in cork? it should be pretty obvious to all as to why that would be a bad idea



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,766 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    PUC is a shithole of a stadium, I wish they'd do away with the whole idea personally.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 645 ✭✭✭CONSI


    I think if Munster rugby are serious about their finances then they have to look at all the alternatives. What other business just gives up on a few hundred thousand a season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    They should look to sell naming rights to TP, the stands, the terraces, everything.

    Professional sport costs. I feel Munster rugby, in some ways, are stuck in some ideological ways about tradition and values and other nonsense. Munster need to move with the times and if fans cannot understand that, its on them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,315 ✭✭✭✭phog


    The naming rights are a bit of a red herring. We don't play all our home matches in Thomond and now we're moving one of the two European pool games out of the stadium.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,791 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    They should look to sell naming rights to TP

    They've tried multiple times going back twenty years. There were mad numbers being thrown around when the stadium was being rebuilt, then the economy collapsed and that evaporated, and any offers since then have been pretty low, by all accounts.

    The value of tacking a new name onto a (very famous) existing stadium is a lot less than a brand new build. Everyone calls it the Aviva, but I don't even know what Ravenhill is called now, and Thomond would be the same, everyone would keep calling it Thomond.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Its not a red herring. The stadium was redeveloped in 2008? 18 years ago. European Games are being moved to Cork in 2025 and 2026.

    A monumental lost opportunity all because of some BS tradition nonsense.

    The stadium naming rights would generate money. Selling the naming rights to the stands would generate money.

    But not doing so because of sentimental reasons has been a monumental mistake.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,315 ✭✭✭✭phog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,034 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    While I agree with you in principal that it would have brought a lot of much needed money in, the selling of the naming rights was never going to work from a commercial point of view. Nobody referred to Musgrave Park as Irish Examiner park back a few years ago, if they even remember now. Most people don't even know it's now called Virgin Media Park.

    You saw the debacle when PUC was going to being renamed to Supervalu Park as well

    With that being said if they sold the naming rights it's highly likely whoever is handing the money over would require a minimum number of games and likely all home European games



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Ravenhill is now the Affidea Stadium having previously been the Kingspan. Not a new stadium.

    Leinster/RDS have sold the rights to the RDS (Laya) - not a new stadium.

    Connacht have done so with The sportsground (Dexcom) - not a new stadium

    Munster Stuck in the dark ages and clinging onto some misguided belief about brand value of thomond park etc.

    A low ball number, even 30% lower then expected (maybe their expectations were too high and the anticipated value of the brand was over inflated and the offers were actually real world offers) is better then a big fat zero and voluntary redundancies and potentially involuntary redundancies and reduced playing budgets.

    But I'm sure the Munster hierarchy who seem immune from any criticism have it right. And the accounts back that up .......



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