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The tragedy of Noelia Castillo Ramos

  • 28-03-2026 07:11PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 304 ✭✭


    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7vqdd23y0vo

    This case has been haunting me. It's just so heartbreaking that it's almost too much to bear.

    Young Spanish woman Noelia Castillo Ramos was only 25 when she died by euthanasia on 26th March, but she experienced more pain than most who live to old age in western Europe. In and out of the care system because of her father's alcoholism, she endured sexual violence, extreme mental illness, and ultimately one of two suicide attempts left her paraplegic (but in agony where she still had feeling).

    I know it's horrific that death was, for her, the only option. I wish it wasn't - I wish there was some other way. But I also wish she had not endured such profound suffering that caused her to want to end the pain in the most drastic fashion. And to see right-wing commentators condemning her choice (from a place of dogma rather than compassion) really pees me off. The lack of empathy is astounding - they don't even try to understand the depths of pain someone has to be in to make such a choice. Their objections are about THEIR feelings rather than Noelia's. This claim to value all life seems pretty phony too from the worst ones. It's like they're ticking a box ("I'd better disagree with that because lefties are understanding regarding it").

    I know of course there are reasonable concerns regarding euthanasia - but to proclaim that suffering is something we all have to go through (and they don't have to endure what Noelia did) and to politicise Noelia's case with drivel about the state killing her and harvesting her organs (they're well able to recognise consent when it suits) is just disgusting.

    I wish Noelia was still alive, but it was not to be, and I'm glad her suffering is over.



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭Terrier2023


    We have failed as humans the world is upside down african migrants gang raped a young woman & drive her to suicide and the healing for her trauma is to be offered euthanasia what of the rapists? law & order is gone the 3rd world is here and there is no turning back the clock. Europe, like turkeys voting for Xmas thanks to the EU & their policies. Rest in peace young lady no more pain !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 260 ✭✭Tacitus Kilgore DCLXVI


    Using what happened to her as an excuse to have a go at migrants is disgusting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭Terrier2023


    north african minors raped her thats fact a reported fact not a go at migrants coulkdnt give a **** about migrants i dont live near any so they dont bother me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 260 ✭✭Tacitus Kilgore DCLXVI


    You have a strange way of demonstrating how you don't care about migrants.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 455 ✭✭BlondeBomb


    Absolutely not a fact. She never described who raped her.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭Terrier2023


    all the spanish papers reported that north african minors in the same government facility raped her young lads with no folks the usual scammers they do it everywhere they go its their religion kill & rape kaffirs ( white christians). Are you some NGO shill migrant lover or what?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭Terrier2023


    i love them i pay for all their comforts !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 455 ✭✭BlondeBomb


    She herself said she was raped in a nightclub but why would we believe her eh??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭Terrier2023


    get the spanish papers the UK & irish papers are full of migrant crime cover ups !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 260 ✭✭Tacitus Kilgore DCLXVI


    Something tells me that this poster would be saying she was asking for it if he (and it has to be a guy posting this crap) thought there was no angle for xenophobia.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 260 ✭✭Tacitus Kilgore DCLXVI


    Do you know what an NGO is, or are you just rehashing American talking points?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It is grim, though objectors to assisted suicide using it as a pretext for what is wrong with it is also fairly unpleasant. The woman by all accounts was fully aware of what she wanted and went through numerous legal battles to reach this end. That they don't like it is somewhat beside the point, and I don't see how forcing her to live as a paraplegic completely against her wishes is somehow a better, more humane option.

    Ideally she obviously wouldn't have been in this position, but we don't live in an ideal world and she was in it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 304 ✭✭Mother Shaboobu


    Well yeah, that's what I was saying.

    I haven't been able to find anything confirming what background the rapists come from - other than people saying (hoping) they are muslim, and then attacking people (using misogynistic abuse if female - "protect are women") who press them for more evidence. Maybe they are - but there needs to be a link provided, yet none is forthcoming. Things are at the point now where it's no longer "I'd bet they were muslim", but statements of fact that they are - without any confirmation. That's simply unacceptable. It would be unacceptable to state as fact that they were white too. Also she definitely said it was a nightclub attack - not in a residential facility. And they always want proof if the allegation is made against someone they like (e.g. Trump, R. Grant, Tate).

    And such an assumption presented as fact is causing people to posit a narrative that the state failed her because of allowing in those alleged immigrants, and it failed her by putting her in care. Then it failed her by having her life terminated. Just a bullsh-t angle to push an agenda. Whereas no acknowledgement that her parents effed up (she alluded to this herself) or that another p.o.s raped her too, or the fact that she chose - with profound conviction - to end her life, due to the horrific emotional and physical pain she simply wanted to end. Wanting that to be forced on her is just disgusting. Little empathy, lots of religious and political agenda-pushing and lies. Utterly shameful. And you can be sure plenty of it is coming from people who support mass slaughter in Gaza (yes I know I'm mentioning politics here, but just to highlight how hypocritical they are). The "pro life" position can be so disingenuous.

    Post edited by Mother Shaboobu on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,348 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    'This is a very evocative topic, for a number of reasons.

    But is insulting to the memory of Noelia to try to turn this conversation in to a diatribe about migration.

    This unfortunate lady had suffered a lot in her short life, but to misrepresent her story, and why this thread has been started is absolutely disgusting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭aero2k


    It's an awful truth that the rapes were just some of the awful things that happened to this young woman. I'm torn between wanting her to be free to decide what to do with her life, and wondering if she was capable of making such a momentous decision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 304 ✭✭Mother Shaboobu


    I get it - I wish she wasn't dead - but I do think she was capable of making the decision. Vulnerable, but not of diminished capacity in terms of decision-making. She fought and fought and fought. God, my heart breaks for the poor girl - all she endured, and the life she was denied.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,825 ✭✭✭plodder


    Tragic case alright. I wouldn't argue that she was wrong to do it. But, it is a worry for me that assisted suicide was originally intended to hasten an inevitable end, ie someone terminally ill and in severe pain, but it's now being used in these cases of psychological trauma, which are not in themselves "terminal". Again not arguing that this circumstance should never be justified. Just that it seems inevitable that the bar will drop as to what unbearable mental suffering actually means. A bit like older people maybe a few years from the end, feeling under pressure to cut it short, to no longer be a burden on their families …

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 304 ✭✭Mother Shaboobu


    I suppose though @plodder this young woman was experiencing both physical and emotional pain at an unimaginable level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,304 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    You’re not wrong, but in this particular instance, the judgement was based upon her physical condition, not her psychological condition -

    Meanwhile, hours before her death, it was also reported that Noelia would be "the first person in Spain to receive euthanasia due to depression." This statement is also incorrect.  The procedure was authorized based on her physical condition, resulting from a severe spinal cord injury following a suicide attempt.

    According to court documents, the young woman suffered from complete paraplegia with irreversible consequences : neuropathic pain, incontinence, the need for periodic catheterization, and significant functional dependence.  Medical reports state that it was a "chronic, permanent, and incurable" condition, with no possibility of improvement. 

    Although Noelia suffered from psychological disorders, specialists concluded that these did not affect her decision-making capacity. This was documented in the psychiatric reports included in her file, which confirmed her mental capacity and autonomy to request euthanasia.

    translated from Spanish -

    https://www.20minutos.es/nacional/los-bulos-sobre-eutanasia-noelia-castillo-agresiones-sexuales-menas-donacion-organos-muerte-por-depresion_6951831_0.html

    Much as I find the idea of euthanasia abhorrent, I despise the politicisation of it even more so, but I also know it’s politicisation is unavoidable when it’s a matter of public policy and national and international law.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭aero2k




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,575 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Preventing assisted dying is taking a choice away from somebody who because of circumstance cannot make that choice. I'm physically able, I am in a position, if I so chose, to end my life.

    If somebody is in such trauma or in physical decline/etc that they want to end their life, there really should be some system to assist them. Have roadblocks/checks/etc - sure. But there should be an end result available to people if they so choose.

    I know it's a trite argument, but if our pets are in pain and unwell we lovingly euthanise them. Why can't people, who choose for themselves, have the same compassion?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭aero2k


    Agreed. But some of the risks have been pointed out above. I'd certainly like the option. It's being allowed in some jurisdictions for mental health issues, which begs the question of whether people can properly consent in such circumstances.

    The concept is reasonable, but designing the roadblocks is tricky.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Marcos


    With sympathy for all involved, including her family, I note that nobody has mentioned whether her organs were donated or whether the hospital has been paid for those organs. I think that no individual or organisation should benefit financially from such a desperate situation.

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,528 ✭✭✭Yeah Right


    Really? Doesn't look like it from over here…..

    So you DO give a fcuk about them, I see. The mask slips.

    Are you some right-wing mouthpiece or what?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    The story is absolutely horrific from the very beginning to the very end. Online news articles are not much better either as just about everyone has jumped onto this and raised a banner for a side.

    While I agree in principle about the right to die (live long healthy life, get crippling physical illness and go out on your own terms) I do worry that when dealing with patients with severe depression or mental issues that if we invested more in trauma counselling and proper therapies, those individuals can be actually helped, rather than euthanasia. It should not become a mid tier option over time, where Euthanasia becomes cheaper for governments than actual therapy.

    Suppose my thoughts are all over the place at with this one at the moment, but it does raise an eyebrow and ethical debates.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Hospitals aren't paid for organs. This should go without saying.

    Those involved in organ transplants are obviously paid to do them cause duh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Yeah lot of misinformation out there that the hospital made a profit of eight million or something over this. Implying that the hospital wanted her dead for economic benefit.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,304 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Nobody’s mentioned it because there’s nothing to mention, apart from it being a narrative put forward by the legal team representing the organisation which sought to block the euthanasia procedures -

    The myth about organ donation

    Another message circulating on social media suggested alleged pressure from the hospital to euthanize Noelia in order to use her organs for transplants. According to this version, her mother was told she could not delay the procedure because the organs had already been allocated to other patients. 

    This claim comes from statements made by Polonia Castellanos, president of Christian Lawyers. However, there is no public confirmation of this from the family or health officials.

    The official protocol of the National Transplant Organization clearly states that the decision to receive euthanasia and the decision to donate organs are completely separate processes. The regulations stipulate that the patient must first complete the euthanasia request procedure and only then may they express their wish to be an organ donor.

    Furthermore, consent can be revoked at any time and can never influence the decision to request euthanasia . The protocol insists that both decisions must be free, conscious, and separate, and does not set rigid timeframes between death and organ donation.

    ——--

    No compensation can be paid either for donation or grafted organs. Spain has a theoretical presumed consent law, but from a practical point of view, the family is always consulted and the wishes of relatives respected. This is the case in practically all EU countries.

    https://hospitalhealthcare.com/news/spanish-model-of-organ-donation-leads-to-boost-in-transplantation/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 304 ✭✭Mother Shaboobu


    I know I'm being too simplistic, but I've thought for a long time that euthanasia chosen by someone to end profound emotional and mental pain makes sense. Unbearable pain is unbearable pain. Now granted, there is physical pain that's simply impossible to alleviate, whereas there's maybe more of a chance to at least somewhat relieve intense emotional and mental pain... but I dunno... SO many suicides. So many people who have been in a metaphorical three-storey building that's on fire and for them the only way out is to jump - in spite of therapy, medication, hospital treatment, ECT (which seems barbaric but I know two people who said they found it very effective)... I'm not saying "Oh people who are suicidal should just be given the right to die" - I know it throws up so many difficulties. I don't want anyone to end their lives.

    I just mean I can see the logic to people wanting it as an option. It would really have to be an extremely long journey to get to that point though.



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