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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭TRC10


     Just like I'm entitled to think it's just another example of Tuilagi's career-long habit of being more interested in putting a massive hit on someone (even if it was uncontrolled/high), than he was in making the right play.

    Putting big shots on people (legally) is a part of rugby. You’re trying to dominate your opposition physically, as well as out think and out skill them. It’s part of what makes rugby great. Enough of the teary eyed nonsense. It was a great tackle, which had a very unfortunate outcome. You’re far more likely to do your knee in while going for a jackal, than from being tackled. Just very unlucky for Wallace.

    Bunder Aki has more red cards across his career than Tuilagi. I don’t hear anyone calling him a thug



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I contend that that Tuilagi tackle on Wallace, is far less harmful to the tackled player’s long term health, than the upright, head on head tackles we saw Sexton putting in for his entire career.



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 9,571 ✭✭✭fitz


    Yeah, I wouldn't deny that's been an issue alright, and it has never just been fans, even officials have often treated PI players far more harshly for similar illegal hits from white players. Liam Williams, for one, is a player that I reckon got away with far more dirty cheap shot play over the years than any one islander I can think of.

    Look, I love a big hit as much as the next person, it's a big part of the game, and they can often be one of the biggest momentum-shifters in a game. My view of that tackle may be influenced by my opinion of Tuilagi's tendency towards a cheap shot, and the really unfortunate outcome, but for me it's like someone smashing into a dead ruck or something. Sometimes a big hit is just for the sake of getting a hit in at best, and that's where things get iffy for me. Players put their bodies on the line enough without reckless tackling being excused as just part of the game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    2 pages of Manu vs Wallace back and forth.

    Bring back the good old days of the Crowley vs Prendergast debate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Vinnie222


    No , thankfully, that debate is finally done and dusted.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,292 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    Mod Edit

    Warning issued.

    Post edited by ShamoBuc on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭TRC10


    but for me it's like someone smashing into a dead ruck or something.

    Expect it was nothing like that. Wallace had the ball, in the field of play. He wasn’t running into touch. He was completely fair game to be tackled. You’re argument essentially boils down to “Tuilagi shouldn’t have tackled him so hard”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 301 ✭✭redmca2


    Has anyone noticed the very poor goal kicking displays by the front runners for the Nr 10 Irish shirt over the weekend? In fact, currently Doak looks like the best kicker in the country. That of course probably doesn't include the best current Irish place kicker, namely Ross Byrne! Is Jonny Sexton supposed to be helping with this issue in the Ireland camp?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,849 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Is Jonny Sexton supposed to be helping with this issue in the Ireland camp?

    No, he is not the kicking coach.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Story going around in the Aussie media over the weekend that the IRFU are trying to poach a really highly touted Australian THP, Massimo de Lutiis. He is apparently qualified for Ireland since birth (via his mother's side), though if we were to sign him he wouldn't be eligible immediately as he has played for Australia A and so would need to go through the stand down period etc.

    I really don't love the optics of this tbh - this isn't a guy like Mack Hansen who was kind of overlooked in Australia to an extent and just treading water, this is a guy who is a really big prospect for them and has already been in camp with the senior Aussie squad.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,974 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    It's far too early to jump on a bandwagon over this. It could very well be the player looking to start all this.

    He might genuinely want to move here or it might be a case where he wants a contract with Australia and is trying to force their hand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,865 ✭✭✭realhorrorshow


    I don't believe this for a second, reads like standard agent shenanigans to me.

    I don't think it's likely that the IRFU are offering "life changing" money to a 22 year old with three Super Rugby caps, it just seems completely incongruent with everything we're hearing about the financial situation currently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Yeah, agree with all of this, and it does seem likely to be agent-led, but also not beyond the realms of possibility that the IRFU have given some consideration to it if there was an approach.

    He was almost certainly already on the IRFU radar given he was IQ since birth anyway, so nothing would shock me here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,472 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    This would be like if NZ approached Bryn Ward and offered him big bucks to go and play for them. I think we'd all be raging. I hope this doesn't happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    TBH - it's not that dissimilar from Leinster grabbing Josh Neill this offseason from SA. De Lutiis is further along a bit, but Neill was an equally bright prospect in SA rugby.

    I get it these guys are qualified to play for Ireland from birth, so in one sense it's nothing different to what's been happening here for a long time (and to a certain extent the IQ Rugby guys wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't at least ask the question), but would agree with you, it just doesn't really feel right.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    I would have felt completely comfortable if Joe Heyes ad opted for Ireland so I suppose I would be fine if DE Lutiis signed for Ulster…😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    I can only imagine how Fiji, Samoa and Tonga must feel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Oh, don't get wrong - the cynic in me would still be delighted to see another great THP prospect signed into Irish rugby, and I'll cheer him on if he does happen to make the switch!

    I would just absolutely hate if this became the norm.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,303 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Im not sure why you would??

    GDP of tonga is 0.5 billion. GDP of Fiji is 6 billion. GDP of samoa is 1.25 billion.

    GDP of new zealand is 270 billion. GDP of australia is 1.98 Trillion.

    Tonga, fiji and samoa absolutely cannot afford to hold onto their prospective professional players. in fact they actively encourage professional pathway schemes which is aimed at retaining local players while offering the best prospects the path to pro rugby (as an alternative to the much more haphazard policy which existed previously where players left the islands of their own accord trying to make it in NZ, aus and europe.) The islands can only provide a minuscule amount of players with a comparable career, for a short length of time (the drua pathway). The vast majority of islander players playing outside of this have moved for economic reasons.

    That isnt anywhere near comparable to a Bok or Aussie moving to ireland to pursue a pro career, when they could have just as good a pro career whilst retaining the ability to play for their home nation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,974 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    The Aussies are known for not paying props well. They spend big on the backs and backrowers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Hard to miss! -To use a bad pun- Madigan regularly spoken about it over the last year. He's not pro Dave Alred, who is/was Sextons "guru". Apparently Crowley also.

    kk.JPG

    Stats up to the 11th March 2026 (before the Scotland game)


    James Humphreys showed a nice natural kicking style v Zebre. It did though look remarkably like his Dads!

    Doak, Murphy, Humphreys -Ulster. Madigan a fan of Richie Murphy

    Post edited by ionadnapóca on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭TRC10


    The online outrage over the De Luttis saga is gas. Australian Rugby seem to have unlimited funds to throw at NRL players. Yet the prospect of a 22 year old injury prone prop moving abroad to take a better offer has their fanbase in meltdown, playing the paupers having their players "poached" by big, bad Ireland.

    The whole "poaching" thing is hilarious. This isn't some 14 year old scoolboy from a poor Fijian village being enticed leave with a scholarship and the prospect of representing their new country and the money that comes with it (as NZ, France and Australia themselves have previous for). He's a 22 year old professional athlete getting an offer to work abroad. He's Irish eligible since birth, so very different to a project player scenario. If Australian rugby allow him to leave, it's because they think he's worth less than what the IRFU are offering him and aren't willing to match it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,865 ✭✭✭realhorrorshow


    Naughton has a lovely, natural kicking technique (which Madigan has been complimentary of), and to my untrained eye the closest to Thomas Ramos' of any Irish player.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    I wouldnt have any sympathy for Australia myself. If the player is Irish qualified then thats fair enough in my book. I remember the Australia squad that played Ireland in 2018 had an incredible amount of players that qualified under residency.

    Koribete (Fiji), Kuridrani (Fiji), Kerevi (Fiji), Naivalu (Fiji), Genia (PNG), Tupou (Tonga), Latu (Tonga).

    Personally I'd prefer if Ireland developed their own first and foremost. There is a good number of young 19-21 year olds THPs coming through. Bishti, Niall Smyth, Andrew Sparrow, Alex Mullan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭TRC10


    A fella with Irish parents/grandparents is infinitely more “our own” than Meafu or Atonio are “France’s own”. Yet you never hear a peep from anyone when they line out for France.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    Kicking stats can be an inexact reflection of a kickers competence. I remember Chris Patterson having brilliant kicking stats but he never took a penalty kick that was much beyond 30 metres. If stats were broken down as to where the kicks were taken from etc that would be far more informative than simply how many went over. Someone a few years ago produced a really detailed analysis of the main kickers of that era involving a comprehensive list of detailed information on each kick. For example, David Humphreys if I remember correctly was rated as the 15th best while ROG was rated lower yet we probably would have put money on it being the other way round.

    It is interesting that Murphy has a 'higher' success rate than Doak. It would be instructive to compare the kicks taken by each. I wonder is it possible that Doak attempts longer, wider kicks than Murphy for example. I have no idea if this is so. Just interested. S.P. at U20s seemed to be a fabulous goal kicker. Maybe he has been 'coached' to bits.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,865 ✭✭✭realhorrorshow


    100%, ideally there would be a kicking stat along the lines of xG in football.

    Ulster pretty much never kick penalties so I think it's reasonable to assume Doak and Murphy have faced a roughly similar difficulty of kick, i.e. almost exclusively conversions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,317 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    If there's a tough kick that we need to make, Doak takes it. Doak is a much better kicker than Murphy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,865 ✭✭✭realhorrorshow


    Surely Murphy only kicks when Doak is not on the pitch?



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