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Plug in solar

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Comments

  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Currently not allowed under ESBN rules (without an NC6 form)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 967 ✭✭✭Delboy5


    If an NC6 was already submitted as part of a rooftop solar array, would another then be needed if someone was then to add a plug in solar solution?



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Yes as its increasing the total power of the inverters..

    Would they be able to tell? 🤷‍♂️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,506 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So what stops these plug in panels from feeding back onto the grid in the event the grid is switched out?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,337 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Microinverters sync to the grid, no grid frequency detected and the inverter shuts down.



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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    It's also the same as the grid tie inverters, they need a grid voltage to operate, once it goes out of set values it shuts down (not just frequency, but voltage too)

    It's like pushing someone on a swing. Except you can only push when they are already going.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Have you?

    I'm already at my nc6 limit so no point me doing it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,594 ✭✭✭OldRio


    It seems most of Europe are using this simple way to generate power. Very disappointing that we can't, especially with energy costs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    Who is going to stop you? Sure they won't pay for export but just use it all?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,594 ✭✭✭OldRio


    That's exactly what I might do. Amazing to think that most of Europe is ploughing on with this and yet we do nothing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,717 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Do you just plug these in to your three pin socket??

    Or is this the stupidest question ever asked on boards.ie?



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    The 800w is what Germany decided, everyone else just followed suit.

    And 800w micro inverter could possibly have 3-4 panels



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,930 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    They are meant for schuko (ie european) sockets. In theory it should work on our 13a sockets but probably safer to use a 13A schuko to 16a CEE adapter and do it that way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭DC999


    +1 to that. Running for 1.5 years on a small system with no NC6.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭DC999


    MIcroinverter into a 3 pin plug. Solar panels into the microinverter.

    Check the microinverter has anti islanding- meaning it needs AC power to run. So when the power is knocked off, it can't be on. So you or emergency workers don't get shocked unexpectedly.

    If you get an energy monitoring smartplug, like a Tapo, you can see the power in the app on your phone. Costs10 quid.

    Buy a 2nd hand solar on Adverts and you'll get it all for under 400 quid for 4+ panels. And buy the microinverters online which is included in the price above.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    If you already have solar and battery, how does this kind of set up work? I assume that it is a stand alone system that doesnt interact with the main solar?

    If the plug in solar is supplying power, does the main solar just "recognise" that there is no load, or does the main solar take priority to supply background load( fridge,TV etc)?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭DC999


    Correct, it's a 2nd setup that doesn't interact with the main solar. It's 'dumb'. It generates and the house uses what is there or it goes to the grid when there is excess.

    Main solar won't see the 'generation' so it looks like I've a lower house load when I look at my monthly stats. As in if I generate 100kWhs from the micorinverter, the house loads shows as 100kWh less - assuming I used it all of course.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    Great !!.

    I'm new to all this.

    So, in theory, I can install 3 or 4 small(ish) panels with a micro inverter on each( or can they all be connected to one inverter). If they are generating, say, 600w and I am only using 400w, the excess goes back to the grid?. How does this effect ESBN, or will they even know that you are generating from a stand alone system?

    Does it all need to be done by an electrician or is it DIYable?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog


    Thanks for all the info. Have you got any photos of your setup? Might help the rest of us to visualise how it works .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭DC999


    MIcroinverter into a 3 pin plug. Solar panels into the microinverter. Sun shine. That's it :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog


    In other words

    1000040111.jpg

    What wiring did you use from the inverter? A photo of the connection would be handy😁🤷🏻‍♂️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,030 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    AC side they usually come with either a short cable and plug attached or just cable and empty wires at the "plug" end. The connector to the micro inverter for AC depends on the inverter vendor, it's usually a odd standard. The dc side is the industry standard MC4. They are usually meant to be connected to the panel so they get connected immediately and have outside air cooling them.

    In this case someone might have put a ip65 rated waterproof connector on the end of the supplied pigtail and ran some 1.5mm outdoor pond cable to the inverter to a outside power point.

    1000000489.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,582 ✭✭✭witnessmenow


    Anyone who went down the plug-in solar route, did you need to change your rcd/mcb/rcbo or just rock on with a standard setup? Also any recommendations on micro inverters?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,849 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    I'm not saying you shouldn't go ahead with this, but just want you to be aware that it's not currently approved to do this in ireland. The UK have a proposal to make it legal over the summer coming up, but I've heard nothing to the same in ireland.

    Its somewhat questionable if they could detect you doing this if you already have an NC6 in place with an existing solar setup, but if you currently have nothing and then all of a sudden you start exporting…….it's EASILY detected if you have a smart meter. A simple SQL query would show up everyone in the country in like 5 seconds who are exporting and don't have an NC6 in place.

    Just be warned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭dessertspoon


    If there is an existing main inverter in addition to a standalone micro inverter, will the main inverter down regulate it’s export to keep the total below the ESB 5.6kw limit?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭olympicweights




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 249 ✭✭oaklands


    yes - assuming there is a CT on the mains export configured correctly & the micro inverter cannot deliver more kW than the NC6 cap.

    Of course because it can work, doesn't mean it complies with NC6 regulations (likely does not for most people).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,849 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Actually I'm not sure that is true. NC6 doesn't have the concept of export limiting on the inverter side. There maybe inverters approved for NC6 which do have limiting, but it's not usual I think. So what will happen for most people is that your main inverter could be chugging along exporting (say) 5.5kw, and then you might have micro-inverters exporting an additional 1kw thereby "technically" exceeding the 5.6Kw limit of an NC6.

    I should say, that the NC6 regulations aren't actually on the 5.6Kw export, although that's what it works out as. It's actually worded as "total amount of inverter capacity in the household (not the export amount)". So as weird as this sounds…..

    • if you take a main inverter (5kw) and you hook up to 2kpw of panels and
    • you have 4xmicro-inverters each with a 400w panel connected (so a total of 1.6Kwp)

    technically, your actually breaking the NC6 regs even though you only have 3.6Kwp in panels, as you have 6.6kw of inverter capacity. Full regs are here.

    Conditions Governing the Connection and Operation of Micro-Generation

    By the way, I'm not trying to be Mr Doom-n-gloom , only educating people to what the rules are so that your not "caught out". If you already have solar, a few extra panels by a Micro-inverter is a nice boost I think.

    If you don't have solar - I think I'd be wary of appearing on a ESB crap list. :-)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 249 ✭✭oaklands


    For Sunsynk…if the total export grows to more than 5kW, then it will back-off solar generation to comply with default 5kW export limit. Of course it will first charge the battery. This is just what an inverter can do. As already mentioned likely would not be in compliance for NC6 here in Ireland.

    image.png

    Here is a live example of a system being limited to 500W export with SoC 100% and ~10kW solar panels in full sun.
    The solar generation is being throttled to 383W from what it could be (circa 6kW now). System is running in Sunny location (not Ireland).

    PS: The reason for 500W export limit in above example is

    1. Essentially no payment for export
    2. Hopefully extends life of Inverter, by not stressing it when not needed
    3. A small amount is exported to avoid residual import/charges from running 3-phase 12kW Inverter. (could result in extra 3kWh per day imported without this. This reduces it to about 0.2kWh imported pr day)


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