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Scutch grass vs. ornamental grasses in borders

  • 19-03-2026 12:02PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭


    This year I was planning on creating a poor man's version of Oudulf inspired borders. Example:

    image.png

    Even though I am in the process of clearing the planting areas of scutch grass - and there's loads of it as we let the grass grow long/wild in these areas over the last 8 years - I'm pretty sure it will always be some bit of a problem as it's embedded in so many other areas close by. My question is am I doomed to failure if my beds are 40-50% ornamental grasses as the scutch grass will inevitably get in around the roots of these grasses and be difficult/impossible to weed out? I have no problem with regular weed maintenance but I can't be on high alert 24/7 either! I don't need or want a manicured border, just something natural looking and full of wildlife friendly herbaceous perennials and annuals.



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 714 ✭✭✭waterfaerie


    I wish I knew the answer to this! We're in the same situation and would love to do something similar with big, wide beds filled with a mix of herbaceous perennials and annuals. That's a beautiful inspiration you have.

    I'm afraid we've been at it for over 10 years and haven't figured it out, at least not an easy way. We have managed to keep the scutch out of the vegetable beds using a combination of intensive removal, some barriers in the worst areas and adding chickens into the rotation. Perennials are a completely different situation because the soil isn't being re-worked. With a bit of work at first, we've got some nice shrubs established but it's a bit more tricky with herbaceous perennials.

    Deep woodchip seems to be good but it's either expensive to buy or time consuming to make enough for large areas. We bought a chipper and make our own but can only do small areas at a time. Also, covering it only works if you completely sever the connection to the surrounding areas. We did some test areas where we covered it for really long amounts of time and it survived underneath because it was connected to patches that were uncovered.

    I've read that the best way to get rid of it is to cut a trench and thoroughly check that it's completely severed from any surrounding scutch, then cut the area into smaller squares in a grid pattern to really hamper it, and then cover it really well for a year or more and it will be killed. You need to make sure you cut deep enough and make sure you don't miss a spot. We were going to try that method but it's a lot of work. We've just got too much area to do and growing the food takes too much of our time so we've sort of given up on fighting the scutch. I've sort of accepted it will always be there so try to make the best of it.

    Be careful as well, because many of the most difficult weeds can lie dormant underneath grass for decades. Many of the patches we have managed to clear of scutch now have a lot of dock and thistle instead. They're very difficult to weed out once you have perennials in the ground.

    And yes, it does creep back in from surrounding areas!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭LeoD


    OMG - I was hoping for a positive uplifting story that would help me through these dark times! 😂

    Sometimes I wonder does Gardener's World do more damage than good - showing us these amazing gardens that we haven't a hope of ever achieving anything near as good and subsequently feeling like a failure for not doing so. I've altered my overall plan a bit after a weekend of digging and I'm now thinking of completely clearing the bedding areas of weeds to begin with and raising them slightly with sleepers around the border. I've no doubt that scutch will continue to raise its ugly head but it my be easier to remove it as I see it from a controlled area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,033 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Gardener's World was removing Scutch from a bed only last week or the week before. It all sneeds digging out without leaving broken roots behind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭LeoD


    I've seen so many segments on scutch grass at this stage I can't remember whether it was YouTube or TV I saw them on. There are no dig options also which I might try elsewhere in the future but for now I'm going old school dig dig dig.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 714 ✭✭✭waterfaerie


    In my experience, digging it out does not work because no matter how hard you try, you will leave tiny bits behind. We actually even tried clearing one patch by sieving the soil to catch any tiny bits we might have missed and we quickly gave up on that option when we realised even with that level of effort, we couldn't get every bit.

    If you're going to dig it out as much as possible and then cover it as well, that might be a good idea. But again, make sure any area you dig and cover is completely severed to a deep level from all of the surrounding scutch. If there's even one tiny bit connected to anything that can get any light, it will grow up through whatever you put over it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 714 ✭✭✭waterfaerie


    Sorry! I wish I could give you more hope. I don't know how much you have but ours in some areas is so dense you can't even get a shovel down easily because it's such a tight web of scutch roots. Maybe you will have better luck!

    I don't think there's any reason we can't have amazing gardens. They will just be different to the ones you see on tv. Our garden is far from a show garden. In fact, a lot of people would think it was a mess! It's still a work in progress and we're only novices really, even after over 10 years, but I think it's amazing and so does the wildlife. We have so much biodiversity here now and I just love it for what it is. The wild areas and planted areas flow into each other and we have different flowers all year round.

    When we were first battling the scutch, I used to look around and see all the things I wished were different. Now I look around and I'm so happy with what we've done and we have a beautiful space to enjoy being in. And the scutch is still there! It is an awful pain but I don't see it as the massive barrier to a beautiful garden that I used to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,740 ✭✭✭The Continental Op




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭LeoD


    Mine is like that. The area I'm trying to convert was sown with wildflower 8 years ago and was poorly maintained so the scutch grass has had a field day since. Trying to dig out with a fork was back breaking and almost impossible due to the carpet of roots so I've now started chopping sods with a spade and forking these one by one. I feel like the Bull McCabe and one day I will look out the kitchen window and admire what I've created with a tear in my eye and look down at my raw calloused hands.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭LeoD


    Totally. Impossible for a dunce gardener like me who mistook the flowers I planted last Oct for weeds a few weeks ago. There is an elderly couple near me however who have an amazing wildlife friendly looking garden. Probably looks unkempt to many but I think it looks great - I going to go and introduce myself someday soon and ask for a tour and advice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭LeoD


    😂

    I will leave this image here as an example of a fool's errand…

    image.png


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 714 ✭✭✭waterfaerie


    Well done! Anyone who has dealt with scutch will know just how much extra work you've gone to. I would love to see how you get on with it.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,876 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tree


    Does yellow rattle like nomming on scutch at all?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭LeoD


    I'd imagine it has no impact as I haven't seen anyone on YouTube mention it and I've watched as many videos as possible desperately looking for a solution. And while I've been focussed on the backbreaking effort to get rid of scutch grass, I also have mare's tail in the garden which is as bad to add to my woes! Ah the craic



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,740 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    I assume you are totally averse to painting the leaves (of both) with a gel made of glyphosate (Roundup)?

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭LeoD


    The area I'm converting to beds was full of long grass and wildflowers although the flowers were getting lighter by the year so need to rid the space of everything to begin with. Once the new bed is planted I hope to avoid chemicals but we'll never say never.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭OscarMIlde


    I got rid of scutch from an infested raised bed, very large, spanned the length of my back garden (actually paved grey eyesore). I used a dandelion weeder to get them out whole and scoured for any of the tiny bulbs left behind. Did it pretty much every day for at least half hour to an hour for a summer. Obviously that's possible with the loose bedding compost that was there rather than soil which you are dealing with. Now that you've dug all that up and it's loosened to an extent it might be possible to try that for any remaining ones that pop up?

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,740 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭OscarMIlde


    Sorry I meant the bits of stalk, the tiny white bits. If they were hard to get out, they would break off.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,740 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    Don't know what its called but we have a grass in the garden that does have little bulb like swellings at the base and its another one thats a pig to get rid of.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭OscarMIlde


    Does it have kind on onion family type smell, and the bulbs kind of run in a big row? That definitely pops up around parts of the garden. I thought they were chives or alliums at first but they never flowered and just spread so they are now on my enemy list too. They've managed to grow under a fence so I can't properly get rid of them.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”


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