nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Scutch grass vs. ornamental grasses in borders

LeoD

This year I was planning on creating a poor man's version of Oudulf inspired borders. Example:

Even though I am in the process of clearing the planting areas of scutch grass - and there's loads of it as we let the grass grow long/wild in these areas over the last 8 years - I'm pretty sure it will always be some bit of a problem as it's embedded in so many other areas close by. My question is am I doomed to failure if my beds are 40-50% ornamental grasses as the scutch grass will inevitably get in around the roots of these grasses and be difficult/impossible to weed out? I have no problem with regular weed maintenance but I can't be on high alert 24/7 either! I don't need or want a manicured border, just something natural looking and full of wildlife friendly herbaceous perennials and annuals.

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

waterfaerie

I wish I knew the answer to this! We're in the same situation and would love to do something similar with big, wide beds filled with a mix of herbaceous perennials and annuals. That's a beautiful inspiration you have.

I'm afraid we've been at it for over 10 years and haven't figured it out, at least not an easy way. We have managed to keep the scutch out of the vegetable beds using a combination of intensive removal, some barriers in the worst areas and adding chickens into the rotation. Perennials are a completely different situation because the soil isn't being re-worked. With a bit of work at first, we've got some nice shrubs established but it's a bit more tricky with herbaceous perennials.

Deep woodchip seems to be good but it's either expensive to buy or time consuming to make enough for large areas. We bought a chipper and make our own but can only do small areas at a time. Also, covering it only works if you completely sever the connection to the surrounding areas. We did some test areas where we covered it for really long amounts of time and it survived underneath because it was connected to patches that were uncovered.

I've read that the best way to get rid of it is to cut a trench and thoroughly check that it's completely severed from any surrounding scutch, then cut the area into smaller squares in a grid pattern to really hamper it, and then cover it really well for a year or more and it will be killed. You need to make sure you cut deep enough and make sure you don't miss a spot. We were going to try that method but it's a lot of work. We've just got too much area to do and growing the food takes too much of our time so we've sort of given up on fighting the scutch. I've sort of accepted it will always be there so try to make the best of it.

Be careful as well, because many of the most difficult weeds can lie dormant underneath grass for decades. Many of the patches we have managed to clear of scutch now have a lot of dock and thistle instead. They're very difficult to weed out once you have perennials in the ground.

And yes, it does creep back in from surrounding areas!

LeoD

OMG - I was hoping for a positive uplifting story that would help me through these dark times! 😂

Sometimes I wonder does Gardener's World do more damage than good - showing us these amazing gardens that we haven't a hope of ever achieving anything near as good and subsequently feeling like a failure for not doing so. I've altered my overall plan a bit after a weekend of digging and I'm now thinking of completely clearing the bedding areas of weeds to begin with and raising them slightly with sleepers around the border. I've no doubt that scutch will continue to raise its ugly head but it my be easier to remove it as I see it from a controlled area.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124334750#Comment_124334750

Gardener's World was removing Scutch from a bed only last week or the week before. It all sneeds digging out without leaving broken roots behind.

LeoD

I've seen so many segments on scutch grass at this stage I can't remember whether it was YouTube or TV I saw them on. There are no dig options also which I might try elsewhere in the future but for now I'm going old school dig dig dig.

waterfaerie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124337186#Comment_124337186

In my experience, digging it out does not work because no matter how hard you try, you will leave tiny bits behind. We actually even tried clearing one patch by sieving the soil to catch any tiny bits we might have missed and we quickly gave up on that option when we realised even with that level of effort, we couldn't get every bit.

If you're going to dig it out as much as possible and then cover it as well, that might be a good idea. But again, make sure any area you dig and cover is completely severed to a deep level from all of the surrounding scutch. If there's even one tiny bit connected to anything that can get any light, it will grow up through whatever you put over it.

waterfaerie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124334750#Comment_124334750

Sorry! I wish I could give you more hope. I don't know how much you have but ours in some areas is so dense you can't even get a shovel down easily because it's such a tight web of scutch roots. Maybe you will have better luck!

I don't think there's any reason we can't have amazing gardens. They will just be different to the ones you see on tv. Our garden is far from a show garden. In fact, a lot of people would think it was a mess! It's still a work in progress and we're only novices really, even after over 10 years, but I think it's amazing and so does the wildlife. We have so much biodiversity here now and I just love it for what it is. The wild areas and planted areas flow into each other and we have different flowers all year round.

When we were first battling the scutch, I used to look around and see all the things I wished were different. Now I look around and I'm so happy with what we've done and we have a beautiful space to enjoy being in. And the scutch is still there! It is an awful pain but I don't see it as the massive barrier to a beautiful garden that I used to.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058436072/scutch-grass-vs-ornamental-grasses-in-borders

Piet Oudolf a hard act to follow

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=peit+ordorf&ia=images&iax=images

LeoD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124337518#Comment_124337518

Mine is like that. The area I'm trying to convert was sown with wildflower 8 years ago and was poorly maintained so the scutch grass has had a field day since. Trying to dig out with a fork was back breaking and almost impossible due to the carpet of roots so I've now started chopping sods with a spade and forking these one by one. I feel like the Bull McCabe and one day I will look out the kitchen window and admire what I've created with a tear in my eye and look down at my raw calloused hands.

LeoD

Totally. Impossible for a dunce gardener like me who mistook the flowers I planted last Oct for weeds a few weeks ago. There is an elderly couple near me however who have an amazing wildlife friendly looking garden. Probably looks unkempt to many but I think it looks great - I going to go and introduce myself someday soon and ask for a tour and advice.

LeoD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124337461#Comment_124337461

😂

I will leave this image here as an example of a fool's errand…

waterfaerie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124339149#Comment_124339149

Well done! Anyone who has dealt with scutch will know just how much extra work you've gone to. I would love to see how you get on with it.

Tree

Does yellow rattle like nomming on scutch at all?

LeoD

I'd imagine it has no impact as I haven't seen anyone on YouTube mention it and I've watched as many videos as possible desperately looking for a solution. And while I've been focussed on the backbreaking effort to get rid of scutch grass, I also have mare's tail in the garden which is as bad to add to my woes! Ah the craic

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124342146#Comment_124342146

I assume you are totally averse to painting the leaves (of both) with a gel made of glyphosate (Roundup)?

LeoD

The area I'm converting to beds was full of long grass and wildflowers although the flowers were getting lighter by the year so need to rid the space of everything to begin with. Once the new bed is planted I hope to avoid chemicals but we'll never say never.

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124337186#Comment_124337186

I got rid of scutch from an infested raised bed, very large, spanned the length of my back garden (actually paved grey eyesore). I used a dandelion weeder to get them out whole and scoured for any of the tiny bulbs left behind. Did it pretty much every day for at least half hour to an hour for a summer. Obviously that's possible with the loose bedding compost that was there rather than soil which you are dealing with. Now that you've dug all that up and it's loosened to an extent it might be possible to try that for any remaining ones that pop up?

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124345188#Comment_124345188

Tiny bulbs? Didn't think scutch (Elymus repens) had any?

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124345245#Comment_124345245

Sorry I meant the bits of stalk, the tiny white bits. If they were hard to get out, they would break off.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124345251#Comment_124345251

Don't know what its called but we have a grass in the garden that does have little bulb like swellings at the base and its another one thats a pig to get rid of.

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124345310#Comment_124345310

Does it have kind on onion family type smell, and the bulbs kind of run in a big row? That definitely pops up around parts of the garden. I thought they were chives or alliums at first but they never flowered and just spread so they are now on my enemy list too. They've managed to grow under a fence so I can't properly get rid of them.

LeoD

Was hoping to finalise the border prep this week and plant at the weekend but last week's blockade meant quarry supplying topsoil was closed. Supplier hopes to deliver by the weekend so might have a progress update next week.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124345323#Comment_124345323

No this is a grass. Very small say 3mm diameter "bulbs" from which is can easily spread.

Really not 100% sure but it might be bulbus blue grass? Its rampant in our garden but as its first recorded instance in Ireland was 1997 I'm feeling less than positive about the ID? Must check the flower spikes this year but another thing that makes me think its not bulbus blue grass is that it grows much taller than the description.

waterfaerie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124393951#Comment_124393951

You could post a photo here or in the plant ID thread and I'm sure someone might know.

LeoD

Phase 1 complete. Grass seeds sown to bring 'lawn' up to edge of border. Place can be quite wet in winter with heavy clay soil so built up beds slightly to keep roots out of sitting water. Don't know if that means it'll be drier in summer? Doesn't look much in the photo considering the amount of hard labour and money gone into it! On weed watch now.

The Continental Op

I'd always try and get the lawn in first. It can be difficult to keep grass see out of the boarder where you don't want it growing.

looksee

We have that grass with the little bulbs. Its definitely grass, nothing onion about it. It has tiny roundish brown bulbs at the base and they grow into large masses that stand high off the ground eventually. We haven't been able to establish a name for it. (well, we have lots of names for it, but no official ones). With large masses the only thing is to dig up the entire mound, that seems to have got rid of a lot of it, but its still common to see smaller bunches in borders. It does not have the white rhizomes that scutch/couch grass has.

Edit, found it! I think it is False Oat-grass Arrhenatherum elatius specifically the variant Arrhenatherum elatius var. bulbosum

Thanks to Fruit Hill Farm and Irish Wildflowers.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124460522#Comment_124460522

Thats the one I have lots of. Seems to like taking over any areas of grass that I leave long. But I'm not sure I don't also have Bulbous Bluegrass which is much shorter but also with those bulbous storage stems.

LeoD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124460351#Comment_124460351

I considered relaying turf sods from elsewhere in the lawn but my energy levels were too depleted to go that effort!

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124460696#Comment_124460696

Cutting turf without a machine is a back breaking job.

looksee

I took up some turves to make a shrub bed and found the easiest way was to cut lines in the grass with a spade, then gently chip away with a mattock, rolling the turf towards myself. The ground was very wet which made it easier. They came up easily and pretty even depth.