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ESBN Maximum Import Capacity

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭deepimpact


    I'm the same, 20kVA would be good for me too. It wouldn't be worth it, considering the additional groundworks I'd have to undertake.

    The "next few years" might not happen as quickly, teams on the ground have little to no input in planning works, so I wouldn't hold out for them in the short to medium term.

    Unless, someone here knows something about grid planning and would enlighten us all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Im no spark or grid planner (lol), but it would stand to reason that the (local urban) grid will need to undergo a LOT of work over the next 1-2 decades or so as we adopt heat pumps and EV's into the fold en masse.

    I'm sure the existing "local grid" was designed back in the day with "plenty of buffer" at the time, but unlikely that grid planners in the 70's, 80's, etc envisioned the level of HPs and EV usage that is going to happen over the next 10+ years. One EV uses what 5Kwh/year or so if my math is right about 5km/1kwh ('ish). So an EV in a household will double the average household usage? Yeah?

    That said, I think the majority of people should be able to get by with 16kVA



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,206 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Thats for one EV, we have two so the numbers are a bit different.

    Generally I see numbers displayed as X kW/ 100 kms as it makes comparison with ICE easier

    [6 litres/100 km]= c 60 kW/100 km ] or 15 euros vs c 7.2 at 18 for EV

    For the Leaf I use 13 kW / 100km

    for the VW I use 18 kW / 100 km ( in the recent cold spell it was 23: yesterday on a 200km trip: 14

    25,000 at 18 is 4,500 kW

    16 will work if you keep them topped up at 80

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75 ✭✭kevin.m


    It's not just about peak export with NC7, but also the size of inverter you are allowed to connect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,761 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    And that software limiting is allowed with NC7 and not with NC6

    So you could keep a low(er) MEC but have a bigger inverter to maximise export on non peak days (eg a 10kva inverter limited to 6kva export will perform a lot better than a 6kva inverter outside of clipping days)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,764 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    For sure, but the benefits of that are limited. Unless of course your house needs to draw more than a 5.5kW load from your batteries very often. The problem with NC7 is that it costs a lot of money up front and there is no guarantee you will even be allowed to get it. If not, money gone.

    I'd rather put my money towards a MIC upgrade. The payback time of that is far shorter. Again, I am talking about this in the context of a modest home in a housing estate. Different story if you have 40kwp in ground mounts in your rural McMansion

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75 ✭✭kevin.m


    But my understanding with NC7 is that it allows you to fit an inverter up to MIC, once its export limit is set to the MEC given with NC7? Harmonics have to be satisfied too, but most inverters should be ok.

    So, assuming 16kVa MIC, you could fit a 15kW 1ph inverter (if one exists) once it's export limit is set to the value given with NC7? This would allow larger array sizes without having to go to a DC-coupled system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,764 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    How big is your array in your suburban modest home that you can export more than 115kWh per day? 😅 This is the limit of the standard NC6 exporting 5.5kW for 21 hours

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭deepimpact


    Just off the phone with ESBN, spoke to one of the CS staff and she told me that no ducting is required. It's still only an upgrade to 16kVA.

    Happy days, payment due and the Sparks at my side to co-ordinate now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75 ✭✭kevin.m


    Again, why the obsession with peak export???

    We will have two EV's, a big battery and a solar dhw diverter. We wont be exporting that much. The main benefit of NC7 for us will be having a bigger inverter and array.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,764 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    You can have as big an array as you like on NC6. What is your obsession with having a bigger inverter? Do you really very often need to power your house load at over 5.5kW continuously?

    I thought it was obvious why export is important. It directly determines the payback period of your system. The 25c FIT I have enjoyed for nearly 3 years now has pretty much fully paid for all my hardware

    BTW I have 4 EVs, hot water diversion, a 52kWh battery, 42 solar PV panels and 40 solar thermal tubes

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75 ✭✭kevin.m


    You are still restricted to the 5.5kW limit to work around with EV charging/divert plus dhw divert plus any house loads. And in an off grid scenario, you have to be careful what you can and cant turn on. If you put enough time/effort in, I'm sure you can work around a lot of that, but most people dont want that hassle/effort. A bigger inverter makes all of those issues go away.

    That is an impressive array size, I assume you are using a DC-coupled system? They have their own drawbacks too.

    Why did you fit a solar diverter when you had solar tubes already?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,789 ✭✭✭micks_address


    You can use a separate charger to charge batteries in parallel with the inverter if they arent restricted by the manufacturer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,764 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    All my hardware was in years before we got a FIT. Basically an eddi bought with trade discount and installed by my buddy for free, paid for itself in a year when we were sending electricity back to the grid for free

    And show me a graph where your house draws more than 5.5kW for extended periods of time ;-) Trust me it is rare. I have a 9kWh inverter myself (so not allowed under the NC6 really), again predates the FIT. I would have no problem downsizing to a 5.5kW. And yeah some of my arrays charge my battery directly via MPPT charge controllers, so bypassing any NC6 regs

    And as @micks_address said, I have additional chargers, charging my battery in parallel to my inverter. Again perfectly fine, nothing to do with NC6 regs. My only offender is my inverter and I could swap it out for a compliant 5.5kW one tomorrow with zero impact on my importing / exporting. Which is all fully automated from within Home Assistant anway

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,206 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Unkel

    Re this

    And yeah some of my arrays charge my battery directly via MPPT charge controllers.

    I presume this is DC to DC so, if so, how long is the DC run from panels to battery and what size cable

    Thanks

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,764 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Hi, just standard 4mm2 solar PV cables. The cable runs are up to about 15-20m, which gives very little losses for high voltage strings. The panels are in series, so maximum current of around 10A

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Ok so this might be an incredibly silly question, but with pinergy you get paid 25c per kWh ex VAT when you export to the grid.

    As i understand it with a Solis 5kw inverter, the most I can export is 5kw and if i exported 5kw in an hour that would mean i would get 25c x 5= €1.25 (ex VAT) per hour.

    So if i could constantly export 5kw for 24 hours, it would work out at €1.25 x 24= €30 (ex VAT)

    Does this rate apply for 24 hours?

    Obviously i know ill be using electricity also but in theory am i correct with the above?

    Also im currently with Electric Ireland and when i looked up the microgeneration FIT the details i got were:

    image.png

    "the rate is variable and subject to change"

    Where do i find what the rate will be at a given time?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,789 ✭✭✭micks_address


    you maths are correct.. to export that amount.. you would need to generate a lot.. either you have large batteries.. 125kw of battery storage.. be able to charge that on cheap electricity or solar and export around the clock… you wont be able to export and charge your batteries at the same time via the same inverter (on my solis thats the case anyway) it all depends on your setup.. on a good day in the summer i might export 40kwh.. thats having my batteries close to full at 5am.. then allowing all solar to export for the day - then dump the batteries from around 10pm to export some more before starting the charge process again at 2am



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,108 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    its variable in that Electric Ireland can change it should they wish to. it's like a variable interest rate as opposed to day/night thing.

    yes it applies 24 hour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,764 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Pretty much. The 25c Pinergy FIT rate is incl VAT, not excl

    I have exported over 100kWh per day on several days last year. On an NC6. So after standing charge and the cost of my import, those days netted me almost €25 pure profit, per day.

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Its zero VAT on Export credits, but your point still stands, you still get 25 cent/kwh



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,206 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-07/07-01-44.pdf

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    That's for income not VAT, and also the basis of the exemption/allowance for the feed in tariff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,108 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    but how much of that is actually from Solar as opposed to imported into a battery.?

    PINERGY do state "

    • Renewables Self-Consumer: You must meet the EU’s definition of “renewables self-consumer”[1], which is someone who produces renewable energy on their own property to use themselves.

    "

    which means

    They may store or sell excess self-generated electricity, provided this is not their primary professional activity for non-household consumers. 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭on_the_roots


    Dude, no provider will ever bother where the exported energy comes from, no matter from panels, dumping a battery or a diesel generator. You can export as much as your grid connection can handle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,764 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Aye. In fact don't start giving people ideas now 😂

    A genny, running on green diesel, would be profitable to run 24/7 and dump all its production into the grid. FIT is very high and of course fossil fuels are way too cheap in Ireland

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Not at the cost of our last fill the other day :P

    when it was about a euro a litre its about on par with pinergy export.

    at euro a litre with a cop of 3.5, a heatpump running off a diesel generator uses less fuel per kwh than kerosene.. (and less cost too)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭on_the_roots


    What about burning coal for a steam generator?

    Ok people, stop. This is getting too far 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,108 ✭✭✭✭ted1




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,764 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Yeah all subsisdies are stupid, but that one is the GOAT

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



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