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has anyone managed to offset their ESB bill with solar alone?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭JohnySwan


    Pretty much I'd say, who would stand over something that was modified by a third party?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Has anyone installed solar on a roof with a large dormer?
    On the dormer roof or walls?

    I’ve searched this forum (as much as boards allows) and I haven’t found anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,764 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    You can install solar panels anywhere you like. But it is a matter of economics whether you should or not. Any areas that get a good bit of shade at productive hours are best avoided. And a single panel in a different orientation from the rest, will need its own micro inverter

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 dessertspoon


    Does anyone have reservations about signing up to 2 years’ contract with Pinergy given dynamic pricing is incoming?



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    At the current wholesale prices, dynamic tariffs aren't a threat currently



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,862 ✭✭✭ECO_Mental


    I think they say its two years but when talking to them on the phone its actually one year contract (I would like it to be two years thought..)

    As graemerk says this is the by far the best deal out there and while you might get the odd day when the day ahead prices might have a bigger difference thean Pinergy these are very far between….a couple of days a year. Also there is uncertainty how the feed-in-tariff is to work on dynamic pricing.

    Once advantage could be if you are a VERY big user, there is the potential to have more hours at the lower rate in the middle of the night than the 2-3hrs the current providers give us.

    6.1kWp south facing, South of Cork City



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,764 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Or if you have a very big battery. But one glance at the wholesale rates (not even taking into account the extra few cents an end user will have to pay on top of that) and you know Pinergy simply can't be beaten. I mean 6c for buying and 25c for selling, incl VAT

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 dessertspoon


    Yes but only for 3 hours a day which is 15kwh using a standard NC6 limited inverter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    My setup is still evolving, but I started the home process exactly 2 years ago and the move to EVs (both cars) 9 years ago. If you have the patience, my summary is below. If not…the fast answer is my bills are reduced, not covered in full, but there's more to it than that.

    Home is 3 bed semi-d with converted attic. BER 2024 is B2.

    Single phase supply, effective 12kVa MIC.

    Heating is Gas Boiler, also heats cylinder when fired. Also have 5kW solid fuel stove for luxury, no back boiler. €300/yr on coal.

    3 EVs in the house. Combined weekly kms circa 1000.

    5.2kWp Solar PV and 30kWh DIY battery added 2 years ago.

    3.6kWp Solar PV and 15kWh DIY battery added 1 year ago. Total 8.8kWp PV and and 45kWh battery. We use around 40-50kWh daily, including for EVs.

    Off the top of my head, I've probably spent about €12k on my solar and battery setup. I didn't count the pennies.

    Before the solar and with 2 EVs, we had used 18,000kWh of electricity in 2023. Stopped counting when we got solar PV, but our electric bills were averaging weekly €100 before solar.

    Gas is much better, spending only €500 - €600 per year, including gas hob for cooking.

    My entire electricity bill for last year: Around €830

    image.png

    That's what I was seeing every 2 months…so my bill is about 16-17% of what it used to be, despite adding a third EV to the mix and another baby born a year ago.

    How does my setup work?

    Energia EV rate. I charge the batteries 2-6am with the 5kW inverter and a 3kW rectifier. We charge 1 EV on the main charger and another on a granny charger and switch each night. The house mostly uses the batteries energy except when the load is above 5kW which the inverter is limited to. I dump excess PV throughout the day and any extra from the batteries from midnight - 2am, except from November through February when I direct PV into battery and don't dump excess.

    So, my energy costs are about €1,400 per year, but they would be well above €6,000 without the existing setup.

    @graememk mentioned cost to heat water with gas being cheaper and he knows his stuff, but this might be interesting to note. I'm in the middle of a heatpump course and using my own house as an example, just finished the calculations yesterday.

    Without discounts on either utility, I am charged 11c/kWh of gas. With a boiler efficiency of 90%, lets say it's 12c/kWh for every unit of heat. I used the higher EV night rate of 12c/kWh, so the same as the gas rate, but remember, the efficiency is not 90% for the heatpump, it's on average 300%, reducing the cost of heating to around 4c/kWh because the HP would be running off cheap electricity the whole time!

    Now you may no longer need to have a gas connection, so cut out the standing charge too. Not bad.

    My Gas boiler probably has 2 years of life left and runs below 80% efficiency. Doing the sums, with grant included, it will only cost me €2,300 more to install a heatpump and upgrade radiators. The heatpump will take 16 months to pay off the difference based on my calculations, which assumes like for like heat production per year. In reality, we will spend the same on running costs with the heatpump, but the home will be kept at comfortable temperature year round (instead of gas boiler boosts) and hot water will be cheaper.

    What all this means is that I will have already recovered my investment this year and my energy costs are much, much lower than they would be without solar PV and batteries. I'm by no means well off….and struggled to put everything together, piece by piece. Crippling electric bills pushed me forward.

    I hope that's helpful.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    A heat pump with a seasonal COP of just 3 will cost just €201 for 11,000 kwh if powered by a battery that was charged at an EV tariff of 5.5 cent.

    Don't forget that you'll have a 15-20% loss round tripping through a battery. My own one operates at 82% efficiency. Still worth doing, but should be factored in to be picky.

    My own case (with 8.8Kwp) is that I'm a couple of hundred euros short of being completely self sufficient, even banking a ton of credit over each summer. That should not be looked as a failure though. I'm still saving well in excess of €1250/year from solar/batteries combo. When we were given the €450 off the government for the Ukraine energy crisis, I was about breaking even.

    My setup has changed over the years along with the variations of solar geneation from year to year, so it's hard to say definitively - but I think that the majority of people can get 70-80% of their usage covered by your average semi-detached roof (if you fill it). Go big on the panels and battery initially if you can. Saves you "upgrading" down the road.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,764 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    There are other ways to charge your battery during that 3h window. With battery chargers. These have nothing to do with the NC6. You can have as many of them as you want, you are only limited by your MIC.

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 456 ✭✭mjatkey


    If you ring Pinergy they will tell you the 2 year contract is a typo on their website.

    I recently switched our apartment from Energia to Pinergy and pointed out to the person on the phone this point and that it may put people off signing up if they thought they were tied up for 2 years. (me included)

    They said they would pass it onto their IT team, looks like they haven't.

    🌞 6.96kWp PV System. West Dublin🌞



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 dessertspoon


    And do these chargers communicate to various battery manufacturer BMS?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,764 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Mine don't. They charge just on a timer from 02:00 to 05:00. Controlled by Home Assistant.

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 dessertspoon


    Thanks for replies.
    Would you have a link to one that would be able to charge a Weco battery?
    Does it need a relay contactor to isolate battery from the inverter first?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,764 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    I use a Victron Titan, but a lot of people now use a cheap and cheerful Vertiv / Emerson rectifier like I used to have. There is a dedicated thread about it in this forum. Any 16S LiFePO4 charger is fine or basically any charger that outputs about the right voltage

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,071 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Quick question re: batteries.

    If installing a solar system is there any value at all in the batteries from old EVs? Or would it be best to invest in brand new, modern batteries?

    Thinking of the likes of a 30kw Leaf for sale for little money, any value in buying that sort of thing to use in a home solar setup? Or is it even possible?



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Even if you got the leaf battery for free it's not worth the bother unless your really into it and know what you're doing.

    As you can get a new 17kWh for €1500-2000 that just works with a lot of hybrid inverters, also for a fraction of the space.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,764 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Not only not worth the bother, most EV batteries are lithium ion and highly dangerous (explosion, run away fires) if mismanaged. They can not under any circumstances be installed inside homes

    My house was running for years on an entire battery from a Tesla Model S, that I re-configured into 7 parallel 48V batteries

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,565 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    our system (3 aspect 7.9kW) was only up and running fully in early july, and our last bill was in debit. we added an EV to the mix in september; but clearly hadn't built up enough credit to see out the winter, so i'm curious to see how the first full year goes.

    our house consumption is light - about 10 units a day - and we've generated 3.6MWh since july; so we've pretty much generated a year's worth of electricity as is, with about three and a half (hopefully sunny) months left to go before we've a full year. i seriously doubt we'll be generating enough to cover the house, car, and gas bill.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,764 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    For an average household to cover all your bills: gas, electric and charging electric cars, you will need a substantial PV system AND heavy battery charging and discharging into the grid AND a massive wedge between buying and selling rate. Very few plans are suitable for it, Pinergy stands out with by far the biggest difference with 6c buying and 25c selling rates

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,565 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    yep, we'd never expected to cover all three.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Right so, i have checked my ESB usage over the last two years and i seem to be on the (very) high side of the national average according to the CRU of 4,200kWh per year.

    I am at 5,918kWh (lets say 6,000kWh) for 2025 and 5,433kWh for 2024.

    If my maths are correct that means I've used 6,000/12= 500kWh per month or 6,000/365= 16.43kWh per day.

    So i need to figure out how big a battery i need to be installed to offset the 16.43kWh that i use per day, by filling the battery up at the cheap rate (limited by 5kw due to the inverter), for the duration that the cheap electricity window is available.

    I would then discharge that battery when the 25c rate is available, at a discharge rate of 5kW (limited by 5kw due to the inverter)

    Is that correct?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,764 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    The problem is that there is never a day that you use exactly the average. You need to find patterns. But yeah you could fill up a 15-16kWh battery in 3 hours with any standard 5-5.5kW inverter

    This will cover most of your use at the cheap night rate. The Pinergy night rate is so cheap, compared to others, that even if you regularly run out and have to use the day rate for a few units, it will still be way cheaper than any other plan. Your minimum battery size would have to be about 15kWh though.

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Yeah thanks Unkel I was thinking that alright.

    So the pinergy cheap rate window is 3 hours long then where is costs 6c to fill a battery how much is it a kWh outside of the cheap rate? I see 39.35 per kWh on a day rate on their website?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,764 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    I don't really know as I buy very little outside the 3h window, but yeah something like that, it is expensive, you don't want to buy more than a few units a day of those on most days…

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,603 ✭✭✭Dr Robert


    Yep, that's the Pinergy rate.

    Pinergy won't work for a lot of people so do the maths carefully.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,052 ✭✭✭tnegun


    Don't forget you can shift some other loads to the 3-hour slot too, e.g. the dishwasher, washing machine, dryer, and boost the immersion, etc. for us, that works out at ~10kWh a day.



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