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WFH is dead and buried. Right to WFH bill is pointless

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,990 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I've been in places that allowed BYOD devices but most stopped pretty quickly. Many won't even allow Android phones any more.

    I found the same. Many people won't use their personal phones for work any more. People were flexible WFH Mobile etc. at one point. But it gets taken advantage of, or not reciprocated.

    So there's a lot of push back these days. Where people have a work phone they turn it off when they leave work, or leave it at work.

    Not that any of this matters. WFH has been proven to work and a useful tool. But its being used for other agendas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,019 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    The inability of many posters to understand nuances is quite .. interesting.

    I argue that there are many risks with WFH in general, and I'm happy to point them out, unlike some who deny them.

    That doesn't mean companies shouldn't do it - but there is a lot of extra work needed by middle-managers to make it successful, and safe The people who say WFH proves that middle managers are not needed are hilarious, and clueless.

    IMHO the company I'm working for takes too many risks with personal devices: WFH is via Citrix so technically secure (paint me skeptical, given what I've seen), but teams+email on personal devices is allowed, and personal devices are used for 2FA. Our case-working staff handle a LOT of PII, and some is sensitive welfare-ish and financial data. If I was the compliance manager, I wouldn't be allowing personal devices. But I'm not, and I'm not a caseworker either, so my opinion is pretty damn irrelevant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,990 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The vast majority of middle managers are not in IT infrastructure and IT security. So very unlikely they are involved in making anything "safe".

    If anything IT spend a lot of time trying to stop middle managers from creating security breaches.

    The "extra work" is often the work they should have been doing in the office but weren't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 895 ✭✭✭SodiumCooled


    It has always been beneficial to me than the company in my opinion to use my phone for work. No job I have been in ever provided work phones so if you wouldn’t use your own phone it would severely tie you to your desk for one, with wfh would make you more difficult to contact and what about being contacted by 3rd parties who need a phone number and of course if you travel a bit for work which I always have you would be very cut off if relying on only having email, teams etc when you could get your laptop out.

    Especially wfh and a more flexible approach to working you may not be at your desk when a message or email comes in but having it on your phone means you always get notified instantly.


    Across 3 private companies and 2 public sector jobs it was absolutely the norm for everything to have email and teams/google chat/zoom etc on their personal phone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 360 ✭✭JM2300


    Do you have an example extra work managers should have been doing in the office but weren't?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,990 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The argument that managers have to see people at their desks to know that they are working. Is admitting that don't keep and monitor metrics on output and productivity.

    Because if people had those they'd know what people are doing (or not doing) and wouldn't be making these daft arguments. That they now see it as "extra" speaks volumes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭techman1


    "The tech giant said it is making the move in furtherance of “reducing layers, increasing ownership and removing bureaucracy”."

    Amazon cutting jobs again, the above is a quote from them. They cutting out layers and reducing bureaucracy. If your WFH job is predominantly bureaucratic the writing is on the wall as the tech companies are at the forefront of aggressively reducing all these jobs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,882 ✭✭✭C3PO


    My employer provides all staff members with an identical set up in the office and for remote working - Laptop, docking station, dual screens etc. If you need a phone for work use, it is provided, albeit with severe restrictions on social media access!

    Having said that there is definitely increasing pressure to be in the office for a minimum of 3 days per week - we're in Financial Services. I personally think that is a good and fair balance!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭runawaybishop




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,397 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Amazon dont really have many WFH staff. Seems a lot of middle management will be gone. Overpaid anyway in corporate positions. Just kinda slowly slid up through the ranks as people left. Useless ****.

    I do like the bit about ownership. Not enough of that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,361 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    The vast majority of doctors use their own personal phones for pretty much all of their calls. They use whatsapp too a lot of the time. In general internal phones are terrible.

    In no world would the HSE sign off on a mobile phone for every doctor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,990 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    HSE has a portal for work phones

    https://healthservice.hse.ie/staff/it-support/smartphone-requests/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,990 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    More on Amazon

    https://www.linkedin.com/posts/timmaliyil_reality-check-ai-may-be-why-amazon-is-having-activity-7389347060116000768-uZcm

    https://natesnewsletter.substack.com/p/amazon-isnt-replacing-workers-with



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 895 ✭✭✭SodiumCooled


    Good to see at least some noise being made around this at government and union level given this crazy push we are seeing to force people back into offices 5 days per week by some employers. I’m no fan of labour in general but fair play to them here bringing this bill forward, will probably not get too far initially but good to have the idea being talked about at the very least that wfh should be an enforceable right.


    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2026/0216/1558818-remote-work/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,361 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    In my department, we were allowed one for the entire group of 20 people and that was after a fight that cost far more in staff wages than the phone ever cost.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,990 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    So you can get them.... :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 895 ✭✭✭SodiumCooled


    In fairness the HSE is a vast organisation with people working very different jobs. So it very much depends on what you do. For example, a public health nurse will be supplied with a phone as you simply cannot have a large case load of people having your private number and possibly ringing you when off, at night etc.

    On the other hand someone in IT or finance has a very small if zero chance of getting a phone as they would only be really contacted by a few colleagues etc during work hours which a personal phone is perfectly fine for. In realty most communication is over email or teams chat/calls anyway so giving out a mobile number is more of a courtesy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,480 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Yeah, the HSE have never had a case in recent years where ICT staff needed to be urgently contacted because of an emerging cybersecurity incident, for example, or the fallout thereafter, which might takes weeks or months to resolve…

    Seriously, WTF?!

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,480 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    I rarely visit instagram these days, but was on it this morning, and the CSO, for some reason, have a big advertising campaign on the go there. One of the lead stats they're pushing is that over one million people now work from home, up x% from 5 years ago (I think they said 83%, I'm not going back on to find out for sure!)

    What's interesting to me is that five years ago was 2021, several months after Covid hit and "everyone" had started WFH. So it could well be a case of we only hear the "bad news" stories when some idiot American company tries forcing people back to the office because {insert marketing speak bullshit paragraph, like Statestreet's from the other week} and we just don't hear about New Startup Ltd going "Of course people work from home, why would we lease a whole office or even a floor for no reason?!"

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,280 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Five years ago was eleven months after it hit!

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,990 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Not every company had the equipment to facilitate WFH. I know a few that didn't introduce it for many months after the first lockdown.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 341 ✭✭GHendrix


    Any of your companies looking to go back remote with the fuel costs and advice from the IEA to work from home where possible?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭Dr Robert


    WFH should explode in popularity again if the Iran war keeps going.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 145 ✭✭Sammy96


    One would think fuel rationing is on the way if things continue as is.

    Can't see companies rowing back now and allowing staff more flexibility. Companies feel they are winning now and wont let thay slide again.

    Shame but maybe you are right.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,019 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Other countries are talking seriously about fuel rationing. Irish media seem to be ignoring the elephant.

    I've heard a rumour that a government request to employers to allow WFH wherever possible was intended to be part of the cost of fuel package. Not sure if it will be included in the end or not.



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