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Couple Ordered to Demolish House - any update?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭SteM


    You might pay a euro for a raffle ticket because you might be desperate to to win a house, it doesn't make the place any less ugly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,662 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    I've been thinking about this house....I've seen it from the beach and it looks ridiculous.

    Personally I would presume the Sutton house due to location the council would be a lot stricter as they definitely don't want a "free for all" precedent set along the coast.

    I could be completely proven wrong though.

    I'm surprised this house was demolished tbh, I think it's the right decision but I thought the Irish "shut leave them be, they're hurting no one" attitude would win out. Glad to be proven wrong.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,565 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    can you honestly say that you wouldn’t buy a ticket? And anyone saying they wouldn’t is lying.

    What a strange point. Yes, I can honestly say I wouldn't.

    Why enter a raffle I'm not going to win in the hopes of winning an ugly, badly designed house? You're better off playing the lotto.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭marketty


    My thoughts are with the unfortunate tenants who will be evicted from another of the Murray's properties now so they have somewhere to live



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,486 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    You will need to explain that in a bit more detail as it makes no sense whatsoever.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,832 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    seems fairly clear to me.

    the poster is implying that the Murray’s have a property somewhere that was rented out. The Murray’s can now evict that renter, as the Murray’s are now homeless. The Murray’s can then move into the formerly rented house.

    The poster is expressing sympathy for the person who is currently renting, as they will be made homeless by the arrogance of the Murray’s.

    It’s not that complicated



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,486 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Saying that it can't be demolished if it's been there for 7 years or more isn't correct. There's a lot more to it than bar counter type chat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,486 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    That would make sense if it were true. I haven't seen anything in this thread or in media reports of the Murray's owning another house. We won't mention tenants rights as it has nothing to do with this thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,145 ✭✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Meanwhile the Robins and Wrens are singing and building their nests, despite how difficult humans make this, to foster and feed their next generation. And when they are finished they will leave zero impact on the environment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,832 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    Which is why I used the word implied.

    Having said that, it would be fairly logical to assume that at one stage the Murray’s were quite wealthy, at least in terms of assets given the demolished house in Meath cannot have had a mortgage on it.

    Given that assumption, it would be logical to further assume that at least one of the assets they may have had in the past was/is another property.

    We are not talking huge leaps of faith and logic here. Just an assumption. And a fairly obvious one too.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,662 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    I wouldn't bet the farm against that train of thought, that's for sure!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,283 ✭✭✭ForestFire


    I'd buy a ticket for a euro, and if I won I'd raffle it off for 2 euro a ticket 😀 @knucklehead6

    But let's be more realistic, most house raffles are 50 euro a ticket, would you pay that for a ticket?, and if you honestly say you would, can you confirm you have entered every house raffle competition in Ireland to date?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,832 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    I’ve never entered a house competition. I paid €50 for a raffle ticket for a Cessna once though! 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Having said that, it would be fairly logical to assume that at one stage the Murray’s were quite wealthy, at least in terms of assets given the demolished house in Meath cannot have had a mortgage on it.

    They likely don't have a mortgage, but to that they couldn't is simply not true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,105 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    A lot of people forget at the hright of the noughties howxeasy ot was to get a mortgage and that very little background checks were in place

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    You can be fairly sure if a mortgage was involved then the bank would be mentioned as an interested party in the court proceedings.

    As for a charity raffle, it would require the council to waiver PP requirements before changing hands, in which case you can assume the Murrays would then tell the charity to get stuffed.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Like so much else in life, this was a case of "very slowly, then all at once".

    I had asked if the Council might have paid off the Murrays because there was no resistance when the Council took possession but I didn't realise the couple had done a runner when, after twenty years of playing ducks and drakes with the legal system, a bench warrant had been issued for their arrest. The Council wanted them committed for contempt of court proceedings so they could have ended up with Enoch Burke. I certainly hope the Council chase them for the massive costs this couple have arrogantly and deliberately imposed on everyone else but we have practically abandoned the enforcement of debt to protect the Celtic Tiger speculators. And people wonder why it's so hard to get a mortgage!

    Three final thoughts

    • the media don't explain why permission was refused, even for a much smaller house. Many people think the Council was being over-restrictive in its zoning for the area. In fact, the original owner of the land was granted permission and did build a house on it but, in return, he agreed that no other house would be built there i.e. the rest of the land was "sanitized". The Murrays knew this when they bought the land and would have paid much less than for a site with full P.P.

    • The house was (a) an ugly, sprawling monstrosity, and (b) typical of the large one-off houses built at that time in rural areas. At its core, there is the makings of a decently proportioned farm house but horrible "stone-clad" carbuncles are attached at either end and in front of the main door. The section on the left was truly egregious. The double-door garage belies their whole "ordinary working people up to our eyes in debt" spiel.
    • I assume their lawyers were paid cash on the nail for decades of work. Now that their claims on behalf of their clients have been exposed as bogus, will the lawyers chip in for the Council's legal costs or will the locals simply have to accept that the Council must reduce services?😎


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,283 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    You can bet no doubt this couple were encouraged for years to fight this by the legal eagles, who are the only real winners in this fiasco!! Gravy train central!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 823 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    Hopefully the attention being given to this case will see Councils do what they are supposed to be doing and that is protecting the common good.
    Let them deal with the many other building s that are not planning compliant , the dangerous roadside trees that should be removed , the illegal headstones , illegal encampments etc etc etc etc .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Yup. It was the peak of money for nothing, questions later.

    Has there been a mortgage, you'd expect it to be mentioned somewhere - even if paid off by now.
    But the claim was impossible to get one, which simply was though back in the wild tiger days

    Post edited by Mellor on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 297 ✭✭Pat734


    I'm the poster who said work had been started to take down parts of the dwelling. I actually stand by it, parts were knocked, not a lot but the attempt I believe was to show the council they were trying. They also did have a big party in the place, for what event or celebration I can't say. Council might have fined them a few hundred thousand, let's say €300,000.00 and let them keep it, with some of it knocked down. That would certainly have taught them a lesson So, what humble pie do you suggest I eat or would you like to read the comment again?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Do you mean they should have been allowed to keep the house if they paid the council €300,000 in addition to paying all the other debts (especially legal fees) for which they are liable OR do you mean that €300,000 would settle all their debts to the council?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Council might have fined them a few hundred thousand, let's say €300,000.00 and let them keep it, with some of it knocked down."

    No part of the house could be kept as residential, see condition 3 below, relating to the first dwelling on the landholding granted planning permission in June 2005.

    They could have applied for a change of use from residential to a museum of bad taste.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,757 ✭✭✭dubrov


    The recent video suggests absolutely nothing significant was knocked previously.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 297 ✭✭Pat734




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,589 ✭✭✭standardg60


     "was typical Celtic Tiger,” Ms Murray said. “We were typical Celtic Tiger people doing what we did. Everyone was borrowing from the banks and building massive houses, except we were spending our own money on it.”

    From the Indo, pretty clear there was no mortgage on it, and I would still hold that they wouldn't have got one without PP if they had applied, even at the height of the madness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭Caquas


    well that’s clear then - you haven’t thought through what you were proposing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 37,415 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Agreed. It's likely they got the likes of ESB connection etc by just quoting the refused planning permission reference on the connection form and it likely wasn't checked by anyone. Checks for a mortgage would be much more stringent by solicitors etc.

    It was always most likely that they built with their own money. Maybe some large loans to help, but not a mortgage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭chooseusername




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭davebuck


    Everyone is entitled to their opinion and yes the couple were wrong from the start but spending probably another 500K plus to knock a prefectly good house which surely could have been used by the council for a useful purpose seems wrong in my opinion. Yes the council have spent huge money defending all the court appeals etc. and the court directed MCC to demolish the house but at what cost? Its not like a house in good condition could not be used for various social services currently under massive pressure. They're no winners in this situation the law needs to be upheld but the medicine applied by the court and MCC seems to be very severe and not looking at alternative options.



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