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US/Israel conduct airstrikes on Iran again

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Comments

  • Administrators Posts: 56,306 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I really don't think it's good cop / bad cop. I think it's beginning to become clearer that the Israeli's have sold Trump a pup on this.

    They have been wanting to get a US President to take action against Iran for ages and finally got a President stupid enough to do it. I am absolutely convinced that Trump did not expect it to go on this long, he was expecting Venezuela Mk II where the Ayatollah would die and the Iranians would be on the streets and it'd be over quickly.

    The Israelis know once the US is in they can keep pushing for more and more because it's difficult for the US to get out without looking like idiots. The US public expect victory in any war, and they know that Trump's vanity will insist on an outcome where he can clearly point to himself as the victor.

    They can continue to manufacture circumstances where the US's ego insists on further and further action until Israel gets what it wants. Bombing the gas field for example, they know the US will just have to play along. The US is struggling to clarify what it needs to end this war because it has no idea what it can sell to the US public.

    Claiming that regime change was the goal when you get another hard liner is a hard sell. The expected uprising doesn't look like it's going to happen, so they'll try to downplay what they wanted. But claiming that removing Iran's missile threat is what they really wanted doesn't really wash when Iran is still blowing up Israeli oil refineries.

    Netanyahu is just appealing to Trump's vanity with that line. Playing him like a cheap fiddle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,279 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Aggressors pay reparations and in this case, that is Israel and the USA



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭Enduro




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Losers pay reparations. While they look likely not to win, that is a very different thing drom losing. The US and Israel are not going to be paying reparations. Honestly, have people lost all sense in this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,691 ✭✭✭yagan


    I can't find footage of this alledged Bibi interview. Got a link?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,616 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,703 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    You are correct, and it’s an obvious problem with the idea of regime change by bombardment.

    But there may be an interesting outcome if he were to appear on a balcony in, say, Shiraz. Tehran seems geographically too far to try it, but I’m fairly sure if the US wanted to put him somewhere in a battalion or two’s of Marines’ helicopter range of the Red Sea they would be able to manage it, maybe in a week or two if they try focus on such a prospect. I don’t know enough about Iran’s internal demographics to know if there is any particular level of support for him in a specific geographic area but I would not be surprised to see a “snowballing” of support from a seed like that. The level of opposition is the interesting question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,279 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Trump said their attack was the best and they won weeks ago, when are the losers paying reparations?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Iran, though unlikely to pay reparations, is infinitely more likely to do so then the US/Israel.

    I don't know why these discussions have to devolve into obvious nonsense so frequently. F35s are in fact the greatest fighters on the planet and Iran can essentially do nothing against them - a mildly damaged one after thousands of flights doesn't change that. US/Israel are not going to pay reparations. etc etc. At least ground the discussion in some basis of reality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,279 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    When will Israel & the US win? What is their winning criteria? a change in government? massacring ever more woman & children? causing world wide recession? Will the recession cost them more than reparations?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 255 ✭✭Tacitus Kilgore DCLXVI


    There needs to be criteria to assess whether the actions are successful or not. When the only objective for the US seems to be bomb Iran to bolster the ego of their current maniac president, then I guess they have/will win. And when the only clear objective for Israel is to get the American lunatic to help them bomb Iran into submission (while killing as many Iranians as possible), then I guess they have/will win.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I have literally not claimed they will win. Do you even read posts?

    Revelling in minor damage to one plane, or talking about US paying reparations is just mildly pathetic. One is meaningless and the other is never going to happen. Frankly there is no positive outcome here - we are likely to end up with an even more fundamentalist dictatorial regime in Iran, massive damage is being done to the entire Middle East, and Western power and influence is further eroded to the benefit of awful regimes in China and Russia.

    It is all bad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 169 ✭✭Firstsub


    I actually believe Rubio when he said Israel were going to attack Iran and the US felt they had to join in. It was nothing to do with Iran having a nuclear weapon within weeks. Tulsi Gabbard confirmed that US intellgence had advised that Iran had not restarted uranium enrichment after it being obliterated last year.

    I think Israel saw the rebellion in Iran, thought that they could eradicate the Iranian leadership and a friendlier regime would replace it. So far, both Israel and the US seem to have miscalculated badly.

    Trump, high on the Venezuela mission, thought he could have an excursion or 3 day Special Military Operation. Instead he has shagged up world economies, further alienated former allies while at the same time excoriating them for not joining in his escapade. He has also given a boost to the Russian economy. Truly the stupidest president ever and it is not even close



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I think Israel saw the rebellion in Iran, thought that they could eradicate the Iranian leadership and a friendlier regime would replace it. So far, both Israel and the US seem to have miscalculated badly.

    If this was genuinely their thinking they would have moved a month earlier and maybe so many people would not have been massacred by their own government.

    I don't think they had a fully formed plan or idea of what they wanted at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,777 ✭✭✭amandstu


    You don't think he would consider a boost to the Russian economy as a win ? (insofar as he thinks about it in a direct way)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,279 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    You stated one side will lose which inherently means the other side will win, which is it?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    This has literally never been true in any conflict and is just an absurdly simplistic viewpoint of the world. History is littered with conflicts that have incredibly amorphous conclusions from both sides coming out stronger to both sides ending up destitute and everything in between.

    The US is unlikely to achieve their aims - largely because they don't know what they are - but by pretty much no metric will they "lose" and by absolutely no metric will Iran "win".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,890 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I would think spending a lot of money on a conflict and not achieving your goals is a loss. It is a financial loss, so under one metric, that is a loss.

    Also a few times the Trump regime have mentioned the goal as being regime change so a regime staying in power would be a defeat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    sky reporting 18000 casualt es in Iran including including hundreds of children but ' help is coming' from the pedophilic Nero. That 36000 killed by small arms fire over a couple of days looks ridiculous now. Lebanon invaded and thousands more slaughtered there. But hey all the Israel terrorist schills on this thread will be gloating.

    Post edited by Tazz T on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,181 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    An interesting point. Although many examples of wars where both sides emerged stronger would bound to be very much debated.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,603 ✭✭✭Dr Robert


    Weakening a Russian and China alley is a win.

    Same as Venezuela.

    Cuba next up.

    Method in this madness. It's horrible. Destroying countries at will.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭Jeff2


    JJust to be clear .

    Force majeure means those contracts are suspended.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Israel's detractors can say what they like: no sane government of Israel would withdraw from the West Bank without some serious security guarantees. No sane government of Israel would subject its vulnerable coastal plains - including Tel Aviv - to that kind of danger.

    As for the analysis I posted, they show clearly that Israel's territorial claims are a minor regional issue affecting less than 0.5% of the MENA region. Not the ridiculous "Greater Israel" conspiracy theory that you clearly agree with, that could have been pulled out of Mein Kampf or something on Stormfront.

    Whereas the Iran conflict - involving CRINK powers - is much clearer and should be of much greater concern to Europeans given that Iran is (among other evils) 100% behind Russia in its invasion of Ukraine.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,890 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    No sane government should have colonised the West Bank. That is a great security threat for them.

    No sane person would listen to an Israeli apologist on that country either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,203 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Intentions will take a long time to determine with any clarity. The hostile memoirs have to emerge first and Lord knows how long that will take, especially in Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,203 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    A little bit of nuance, please. Israel’s conduct in the West Bank has been atrocious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 148 ✭✭Arseboxing


    "It could have been pulled from Mein Kampf or Stormfront…."

    Or from the mouths and uniforms of the Israelis themselves.

    The denial of the Greater Israel project is a conspiracy theory equal in credibility to the idea the moon is made from cheese.

    https://sarahkendzior.substack.com/p/the-no-world-order

    The idea that Israel is not pursuing “Greater Israel” would be more convincing had Israeli officials not put emblems of “Greater Israel” on IDF uniforms; invaded Lebanon and proclaimed it part of “Greater Israel”; announced that Israel would also conquer Jordan and parts of Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iraq and call that “Greater Israel”; made a “Greater Israel” amulet for Netanyahu; and displayed maps of “Greater Israel” that exclude Palestinians, whom Netanyahu calls “Amalek” while declaring their fate is to be slain.

    The idea of “Greater Israel” dates back to Theodor Herzl, the father of Zionism, but Yinon devised its borders for the post-WWII era. In 2007, Wesley Clark, a US general who opposed the Iraq War, recalled that ten days after 9/11, he was given a memo on “how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.”

    Over the next twenty-five years, every country on that list was a target of US and Israeli military incursions.

    —————

    The Iran War is being fought for Greater Israel — and for annihilation. The doctrine of annihilation is not unitary. Christian fanatics, Jewish fanatics, secular accelerationalists, and technofascists seeking depopulation all have their own agendas.

    There is a desire to usher in the messianic age, but that gets tricky with competing Messiahs in play. The only certainty is carnage in the Middle East, possibly culminating in the destruction of Al Aqsa Mosque and the building of the Third Temple: a goal shared by Jewish and Christian extremists (though the extremists diverge radically in what they think happens once their preferred Messiah shows up) that horrifies Muslims worldwide and would expand the war to multiple fronts.

    This is not a New World Order. This is a No World Order.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,628 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    That America wins militarily is not debatable. However there is also a metric whereby Iran wins even if their military is set back 10 years or more( which is quite likely).This biased take that Iran can't win by any metric is not true. If we consider it has been Bibi's dream to take down the Iranian regime for 40 years, if he fails in that objective despite the overwhelming military might of the Americans on his side, then the Iranian regime will spin that to their supporters as a win. So in conclusion if that scenario plays out Iran wins politically.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 255 ✭✭Tacitus Kilgore DCLXVI


    Excuse of colonalism: check

    Some video or website you just found that you think is a stick to beat people with: check

    Use of CRINK: check

    Talking about Russia Invading Ukraine: check

    You're just missing some reference to "the Left / Western Left / Postmodern Left" or whatever your sources of talking points are using right now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,628 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Having one of the worlds most formidable armies along with 200 odd nuclear weapons . As well as being backed up by a superpower are effective security guarantees. This idea that Israel would be in peril if it left the West Bank is just pure nonsense to justify their ongoing violent and illegal occupation of it.



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