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General Rugby Discussion 3

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭ersatz


    It just shows that medicine and medical safety is something the organisation is highly proficient at. Drug testing is not something that is 'difficult' for them.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The IRFU don't do drug testing full stop as far as I understand it. Sport Ireland oversee it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭ersatz


    The IRFU works with Work Rugby and Sport Ireland to deliver a comprehensive and robust anti-doping testing and educational programme. The IRFU’s anti-doping strategy focuses on the following areas:

    • In and out of competition testing of professional rugby players in Ireland
    • In and out of competition testing of provincial and academy players, AiL and young players on a pathway to professional/elite rugby, i.e. provincial & national panels Under-18, Under-19 & Under-20 squads
    • Investment in additional testing to augment Sport Ireland testing through their User Pays programme
    • Mandatory anti-doping education for all tested players in Ireland
    • Anti-doping education is available for any youth and senior squads who wish to enhance player knowledge in this area

    etc

    https://www.irishrugby.ie/playing-the-game/spirit-of-rugby/anti-doping/



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,924 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Georgian rugby in trouble

    https://www.world.rugby/media-zone/advisory/1042846?utm_source=wr-media-zone&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=world-rugby

    World Rugby can confirm that a major joint-investigation conducted by World Rugby and the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) has resulted in anti-doping rule violations (ADRVs) being confirmed against six players and one member of the support personnel from the Georgia men’s senior national fifteens team. This confirmation follows a public update by WADA today.

    The investigation was triggered when irregularities in urine samples were identified by World Rugby’s athlete passport management programme, covering an extended period of time prior to Men’s Rugby World Cup 2023 in France. World Rugby alerted WADA immediately and the two bodies worked closely together throughout complex and extensive parallel investigations which featured targeted player testing and DNA analysis by World Rugby, including on historical samples held via World Rugby’s long-term storage programme.

    Six players and a member of team support personnel have been charged and sanctioned in relation to an orchestrated scheme involving recreational drugs and sample substitution (a practice prohibited by the WADA Code and the World Rugby Anti-Doping Rules).

    While noting WADA’s public update, including its parallel investigation relating to the Georgian Anti-Doping Agency, in accordance with the World Rugby Anti-Doping Rules, the international federation is currently unable to make any further comment until the full disciplinary (results management) process has been completed and the outcomes and sanctions are published.

    World Rugby takes all anti-doping matters extremely seriously and is an unwavering champion of clean sport.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,676 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    "World Rugby’s long-term storage programme"

    The polite name for World Rugby's big warehouse full of pi$$



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    why are players being tested for recreational drugs at all? Stupid



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    A huge amount of common recreational drugs are all on the WADA banned list - including cannabinoids (cannabis / marijuana), narcotics (heroin, morphine, oxycodone) and stimulants (cocaine / MDMA).

    Some of these drugs are deemed to have some performance enhancing quantities, others are used to mask pain etc.

    WADA also published a study a long time ago noting how amateur athletes who used recreational drugs were orders of magnitude more likely to use performance enhancing drugs too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I know they are on the list, but to me it's moralistic nonsense. It's no business of WADA how an athlete chooses to indulge. Classifying marijuana or mdma in the same catagory as PEDS is silly. It's especially harmful imo with respect to impact sports, given players might want to choose to use thc products for pain relief, and instead be forced towards opiates. That's long been an issue in the NFL, with all the attendant problems opoids come with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,676 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    But you can still use them to gain an advantage. I agree about weed as a painkiller because it's no different to taking many legal ones but there still has to be a line somewhere with amphetamines. It's not for nothing that Fausto Coppi was extolling the virtues of "la bomba".

    It was also amphetamines that Kimmage heard "rattling around in cyclists back pockets" and himself later took in his career.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,090 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    I think in some sports then weed is not a ban if found in out of season testing. In season is different in that it has performance enhancing properties due to.reducing heart rate and stress levels. Helpful in certain situations in game but completely useless out of season



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    A different code I know, but thought this was a pretty cool crowd reaction over in the NRL to the try scoring record being broken.

    https://x.com/thegamecaller/status/2032404988564054405?s=46



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,924 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Fcuk but a few years ago kimmage and his ilk were complaining about players using paracetamol prior to games as a pain killing. They literally called players who do this "cowards"

    Players using 'recreational' drugs might not be an issue......if you are 100% sure they are using the drugs recreationally. What's to say the use of the drugs here isn't too mask the use of other drugs?? The biggest issue here however is the use of these drugs is claimed to be systemic and organized



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,676 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Trying to discredit journalist as an "ilk" and discount drug cheats as " bad apples". Sounds familiar to me.

    Serious questions now exist about the world champions and the dominant second tier team in Europe but ya nothing to see here.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,924 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    You have completely misconstrued my post.

    Calling a player a "coward" for using paracetamol is not even in the same stratosphere as a systematic drug taking cover up that the Georgians are accused of.

    If you think they are comparable then that's on you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,676 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985




  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,394 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    No amount of pharmaceuticals will cause as much damage to a player's health as the game itself will, IMO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,162 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    Portugal beat Georgia today in the final of the second tier Euros , great to see them continue progression from World cup, with continued investment/development , maybe we could se them and/or Spain join 6 Nations next decade.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    There isnt a chance of it happening. there isnt room in the season for it and non union clubs wont want any changes. georgia are still more deserving in rugby terms of being promoted ahead of either spain or portugal and they wont be promoted. they do deserve more opportunities at Chellenge cup level and for november and july internatioansl for games against 6 nations and rugby championship sides but a change to 6 nations isnt going to happen



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    There's plenty of room if there's a will for it. Expanded to 8 teams would add 2 weeks to the tournament, hardly an insurmountable hurdle.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,012 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Jack Dempsey is leaving Glasgow at the end of the season to join a Japanese side. It probably rules him out of next years Six Nations and the World Cup. Huge blow for Glasgow and Scotland who both lack power up front as it is. He's one of their few gain line breakers.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Scotland have no problem selecting overseas players, he should be ok?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,012 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    The BBC are using George Turners move to Japan as precedent. He wasn't selected at all for Scotland until moving back to England to play for Quins.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Fair enough, but this quote

    He is unlikely to play in the 2027 Six Nations unless Scottish Rugby are able to negotiate a deal to release him from his club commitments to play in the tournament.

    is just wrong. They don't need an agreement - it is an international release window that the Japanese clubs are beholden to same as everyone.

    The player may have told the club he wouldn't release himself of course.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,162 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    Im not so sure, I'm sure traditionalists didnt want France or Italy join when they did, if Portugal continue to make strides over the next 8 years I could certainly see the appeal and will to expand, and that extra motivator - money , probably why they would be slow to get Georgia to join, as well as politically .



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    You will never get the French on board though, they simply have no space to add 2 weeks of international rugby and the clubs there are too powerful. They literally just compressed the 6N by a week after all! Incidentally, a change much for the better I think.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Both very different and Italy was simply adding a match when teams were otherwise on a bye weekend. Adding more sides means either a bye week or 2 extra games. we already have big conversations about length of season and would be difficult to get agreement with french/english clubs about having more internationals. Especially the french. theyve 29 rounds of top 14 including playoffs/final and they wont want any internationals clashing with more games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 818 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    You could always have 2 groups of 4 and then playoffs. Semi and final. Same number of games. But it would mean you wouldn’t play every team and therefore Triple Crown etc could die.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Doing this to the best competition in world rugby would be utterly insane. The tournament is so well balanced right now. There were almost no dud games in this Championship, and it produced countless excellent games of rugby.

    It's taken a quarter of a century though to get to a place where Italy are properly competitive over the past few seasons.

    Adding two poor quality teams into this mix does nothing for the tournament at all. A third string Irish side put 106 points on Portugal last season.

    They might be the best of the next tier, but they're still nowhere near the level required.

    A hard no from me.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    There is zero appetite for that. unions wont want to lose the traditional fixtures and will spanish/georgians/portugese travel in same numbers as english/french/scots/welsh so cities may not want to lose that either. a change isnt likely to happen



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