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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,507 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    All excellent points but I would correct these specific points:

    1. Denmark’s mix is better stated as about 54% wind, 16% biomass, 9% solar, 2.5% biogas in 2023.
    2. Biomass criticism should be framed as often worse than coal at the smokestack or over certain time horizons, not universally worse in every case.
    3. Norway’s interconnector position is politically contested, not fully settled fact.
    4. Irish solar is very weak at winter peak hours, but not literally worthless across the whole winter.

    5. Finaly… for most of Ireland, the winter solstice has about 16.5 hours of darkness,But that is just one day of the year. The entire winter does not have the same number of dark hours each day. In the weeks before the winter solstice, each day becomes slightly shorter with less daylight with the solstice being the shortest day (so each day before that has more light.) After the winter solstice, each day begins to get longer again, gradually bringing more daylight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭Joe1919


    Interesting ESRI report mentioned on RTE news I will quote, "that there is very little variation in actual energy use between dwellings of different BER ratings, so that the average actual energy consumption is similar for A-Rated house and a G-Rated house." So is spending money on retrofitting a waste of time and money or are we just subsidising people's comfort?

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2026/0310/1562514-climate-targets/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,502 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Is anyone actually surprised?


    It’s the biggest con job and money racket of the century.

    Carbon taxes taking 4.5 billion from the average Joe soap every year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,972 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,594 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    1 Denmark`s generation from wind and solar is still 63% and claiming that burning wood is carbon neutral to bring that up to 80% renewables is a nonsense where even green advocacy groups do not regard it as such. No matter if that is 17% or 16%.

    2 If burning wood is the same environmentally as burning coal at the smokestack, what magic powder do they sprinkle on it as it leaves the smokestack that makes it carbon neutral, and why not do the same for coal ? Again a nonsense.

    3 Norway is not a member state of the E.U. It rejected membership in referendums in 1972 and 1994 and as such is not bound to the E.U. 2024 Electricity Market Design protocols. One of which on Mandatory Cross-Zonal Capacity now requires transmission system operators to make maximum capacity available for cross border flows reducing the ability of member states to limit imports during crisis. Denmark pissed Norway off during the latest spell when wind took a prolonged nap when it drained them like a battery resulting in a sharp hike in prices for Norway`s consumers. Sweden were not happy either with Germany doing the same to them due to them having 30% of their generation from nuclear and 45% from hydro. E,specially where Germany had closed the last of its nuclear plants in the midst of an energy crisis they were partly responsible for with Putin`s gas. Sweden as a E.U. member state may not be able to do anything about that, but Norway is not a member state and the present agreement between Norway and Denmark on their interconnectors ends this year and Norway do not need any bodies diplomatic approval not to renew them, as they have said they will not. It`s entirely up to themselves.

    4 Solar is not just very weak at Winter peak hours. For two of the three peak demand periods during Winter of 5 pm to 7 pm and 6 am to 10 am it provides virtually nothing of any consequence.

    The capacity factor of solar for Ireland in Winter is somewhere between at best 5% and 3%. We have had prolonged periods of wind generating 6% and less during Winter when our demand is at its highest. Your contention is that wind and solar are complimentary in that between them they can at all times provide the generation we would require. For that to be true, then when wind is at 6% or less, what would be the required installed wind capacity to make up the 94% generation capacity we require now, and what would be required based on Eirgrid`s projection of our 2050 demand ?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,507 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Most people are aware that solar does not work in the dark, but you are still ignoring the long spring, summer and early autumn months when solar production is very strong. You refuse to factor them in at all and instead stay completely fixated on winter.

    Ireland does not experience the same conditions every day of the year. We have very long summer days with excellent solar generation, and during the colder months we typically have stronger winds which power turbines.

    Denmark producing 63% of its electricity from wind and solar is already remarkable, and it still has room to improve. That trajectory clearly points to where the energy system is heading.

    The opening post reads like something from a different era. Climate change denial and dismissing renewables might have been common years ago, but the reality of modern energy systems has moved well beyond that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,972 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Its disingenuous to dismiss very significant reductions in non renewables on the worse days and times of year. It's throwing out the baby with the bath water.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭bored65


    It is also disingenuous to to dismiss very significant increases in direct and indirect electricity costs pushing us to be one of most expensive in the world

    While continuing to produce 6x CO2 of France on a good windy/sunny day



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,594 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I don`t see where anyone was throwing out the baby with the bath water.

    There are some though who are dismissing the reality that the cost of heating that bath water is the same from renewables or non-renewables, and that continuing with this present renewables plan will increase that cost anywhere between 2x and 4.5x for a country that already has some of the highest charges in Europe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,594 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It`s nothing to do with sunny days, long dark days or windy days. It`s the fact that any chain is only as strong as its weakest link and for us that is in winter when our demands are at their highest. If you are not designing a system based on its weakest link then all you are doing is designing a system to fail when most needed.

    Your contention was that wind and solar combined are compatible in doing that, and I have pointed out to you they not and why they are not, which you just keep ignoring. Why is that ?

    As somebody that believes that a wind and solar combination can provide all our requirements I have no idea why you are still beating this Denmark drum. Denmark eventually admitted it was not, and - due to them being unable to get a single bid for their largest ever offshore wind offering and the realisation that they could no longer rely on draining Norway when their own renewables were not providing what they needed - "that something else is needed" and lifted their 40 year ban on nuclear.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 490 ✭✭bluedex


    Saw that.

    People in A rated houses delighted that they can walk around the house in T-shirt and shorts in the middle of winter. :)

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭bored65


    Not just BER ratings, those who bought into EVs learning lessons about resale values



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,031 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    There have been a lot of reasonably priced EVs making their way to the Irish market over the last 3 years while the price of Diesels have been going for stupid money lately due to a lack in supply.

    The flip side is that most EV drivers are paying 15-20% of the equivalent diesel fuel bill so can afford a slight hit in depreciation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,972 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Saving on servicing and repairs also.

    Assuming no catastrophic failure. But that can happen with ICE also.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,031 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Can happen with bikes, trains, planes and busses but is notably lower in EVs so catastrophic failure risk is more of a reason not to go outside than anything else



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,570 ✭✭✭creedp


    While I agree the risk of catastrophic risk is low, it’s not unheard of either and certainly a higher risk that ‘going g outside’. I’ve have 2 EVs that have suffered catastrophic battery failure rendering both cars off the road. One is a Leaf 30KWh (out of warranty so car will be scrapped) which is not too surprising while the other is a 2021 Model 3 (in warranty so free fix) which was off the road for 2 months before a replacement battery could be fitted.

    When I asked the Tesla service centre why the long wait I was told they are having difficulty sourcing replacement batteries and have a number of borked Model 3s waiting in the service centre. Some may cause this FUD but for me it’s simply a reality



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,507 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    That logic would mean we should only value wind turbines when there’s no wind, and solar panels when it’s dark!!

    That’s not how energy systems work. Generation sources are designed to produce when conditions suit them, and the system balances across many sources, locations and times of year. In Ireland we have long summer days when solar output is excellent, and stronger winds in winter when demand is higher. The grid isn’t built around a single “weakest link”, it’s built around diversity, storage, interconnection and demand management.

    Ignoring wind and sunshine when discussing wind and solar power is ridiculous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭bored65


    Erm the purpose of electricity generation going into the grid is to full-fill demand of the electricity consumers pulling from the grid

    If the semi randomly variable generators with low capacity factors (10% for solar 33% for wind) are not generating much or enough and there is no backup you endup with blackouts as demand can not be fulfilled

    Imagine owning a car that randomly does between 0 and 50kph but you need to drive on a motorway at 120kph constant or cause a crash



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,507 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Erm… yes, obviously. That is exactly the point.

    The issue is how you design the system to meet that demand. Modern grids do not rely on a single source running flat out all the time. They are designed around a mix of generation sources that complement each other.

    Wind and solar reduce the amount of fuel that has to be burned when they are available. Hydro, gas, storage and interconnectors help balance supply when output drops. Demand itself also changes throughout the day and year.

    So the goal is not to pretend demand does not exist. The goal is to meet demand in the most reliable and efficient way possible, while reducing dependence on fuels that can run out or be imported at huge cost.

    And that is exactly what grids across Europe are doing right now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭bored65


    Wind and solar are HIGHLY variable and have low capacity factors, we also don’t have enough inter-connectors to dump our problems on Europe

    You would need hundreds of billions in pumped hydro or batteries to backup wind and solar instead of gas which currently fills that role



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,972 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Gas will do for now and take the win with renewables when it's available.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,972 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,972 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Also happens with ICE. It's just not a media frenzy when it happens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,594 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Back up your horse there a bit.

    Your logic was that wind and solar were such complimentary sources that they would fulfill all our demand at all times. So rather than continually wasting time and energy, do you now accept that is not possible without insane investment in solar to fill the 94% gap in our requirement when wind for prolonged periods is providing only 6% or less ???



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,963 ✭✭✭Nermal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,594 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You old begrudger.

    Does it not give you a feeling of contentment knowing the money you are paying in carbon taxes is helping them do that 😎



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,972 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Let me assure you then. It's only looking at the negative and the worst possible outcome as if it's the only outcome.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭bored65


    That rapidly approaches a point of diminishing returns tho when it comes to; grid stability, costs and co2 production

    And the there’s marginal pricing policies which ensures that consumers endup with one of the most expensive electricity bills in world while still producing a ton (pun intended) of co2



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,972 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It's the opposite of diminishing returns. It's only getting better. It started at zero.

    The argument that this country seems to consistently negotiate the worst possible pricing agreements for it's consumers is a different if valid argument.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭bored65


    It’s getting better alright but not for the consumers paying one of if not the highest electricity prices in world

    And arguably not for the climate as either as we remain many multiples of other green clean cheaper European countries that are energy export powerhouses



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