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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,547 ✭✭✭✭phog


    If you think discussion on selections is meaningless then just ignore my posts rather than this snarky type resposonse, it does nothing for the discussion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    Nothing to with selection discussion. A few days back and forth on whether Dan Sheehans jump or Crowleys missed touch was the worse play is tiresome for everyone.

    It does nothing for the discussion



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,018 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yeah but it's a balance between playing your strongest team and trying new players. If the coach tries to invest in players (which is by definition not playing the strongest team) then they're criticised for dropping X for Y when X is the better player.

    Looking at the 10 discussions, the focus is on which one is better, not the fact that they're both getting gametime, experience and will have things to improve by the next Ireland camp.

    The front row is less controversial because the changes were forced by injury. So the coach gets a freebie on selection, but they still get the criticism when the scrum doesn't work.

    I think we can all agree they have built depth and given valuable gametime to lots of players. It's a pity about the likes of Edogbo and Izuchukwu being sent back to provinces but they have valuable experience of 6N and how they need to improve. I feel sorry for Postlethwaite not getting gametime. But overall, very positive in building towards the world cup



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,426 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    @phog @felexicon give it a rest. move on



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,547 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Which is why I say they should and could have done more outside of competitive games where results don't carry the same weight as they would in the 6Ns



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    What about the tour to Georgia & Portugal last summer where we gave debuts to all of the following players:

    • Jack Aungier
    • Michael Milne
    • Tom Ahern
    • Darragh Murray
    • Alex Kendellen
    • Ben Murphy
    • Hugh Gavin
    • Tommy O'Brien
    • Shayne Bolton

    and gave more minutes to all of the following young players who were on less than 5 caps prior to the tour:

    • Gus McCarthy
    • Tom Stewart
    • Jack Boyle
    • Cormac Izuchukwu
    • Cian Prendergast

    and gave captaincy minutes to Craig Casey, and more minutes to experienced guys further down the pecking order like Max Deegan, Gavin Coombes, Nick Timoney etc.

    Is that not exactly the sort of thing you're criticising the management team for above?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,954 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    I do hope and think they will get more minutes into some of the other players this Summer and Nov. Which will be competitive but really not that important.

    You cant please everyone (see suggestion of getting game time into Osborne at 12!) but its now or never for the other players who wont be 33 or older at RWC (Aki, Beirne, JGP, SMcC, Conan, Lowe, Furlong, vdF, Henshaw).

    In order of priority by position:

    Scrumhalf

    Doak - He could also be the answer to kicking issues. Just keep him away from the Dave Alred school (coattails on the extraordinary talents of Neil Jenkins and Jonny Wilkinson). More minutes with JC/SP is important.

    Casey - Needs more minutes. But not that impressed with his cameos this season.

    Lock

    Edogbo - He could also be a help to part of the scrum issues.

    Ahern - He's 6'9"!

    Centre

    Osborne - At 12. Left foot is a weapon. More minutes with JC/SP is important.

    13? - Ringrose unsurprisingly has lost a bit of his edge. Concussions, Neinaber etc but who can replace him?

    Hume? Gavin? Postlethwaite? Those two really 12s? Hugh Cooney…dont get me started.

    Is the simple answer Tom Farrell is just behind Ringrose?

    Backrow

    Bryn Ward - Hes just a beast. 118kg. Get him on the bench at least and see what damage he can do.

    Gleeson - Bit like above, but maybe the injury has set him back a bit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,626 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Centres, props and wingers are areas that need some attention. We have decent starter options, but poor depth behind. It might be too early to start blooding the u20 lads, but there are some great prospects in the Academy.

    We simply have to play new centre combos, it's getting to be a pisstake at this stage there. I'd like to see Ward, Bolton and Kenny get some more experience. All of our starting wingers have dodgy injury histories.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,954 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Personally I think it has to start with Osborne and build combinations from there.

    Maybe it is to get him in at 13 beside SMcC, but it really makes more sense to me that its at 12. Its his best position, age profile of alternatives, and teaming up* with Ringrose/Prendergast/JGP-Province&Left foot.

    Over the last 3 seasons at Leinster he has only played 4 times with Ringrose as a 12/13 partnership, and only once with SP as a 12/10. That 1 game was v Scarlets in 2023 where all 3 started 10/12/13 and all 3 scored tries!

    Crowley/Osborne as a 10/12 has obviously never happened.

    I say all of the above fully aware that Stu McCloskey is deservedly starting and should be the player of the tournament!

    *hopefully

    Post edited by ionadnapóca on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    Big Stu probably doesn't even make the team of the tournament tbh.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,954 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    I didnt forget Menoncello, he moves to 13!

    Just thinking again; he is Stu's competition for player of the tournament!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,018 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Those games with Georgia and Portugal were good, but they're not the same. The difference with right now is if someone has a great game or couple of games, they could claim the jersey.

    Timony, Baloucoune, Doak, Stockdale, O Brien, C Prendergast, were all in genuine contention to take the jersey (or bench spot in the case of Doak) based on their performance in this 6N. I don't think anyone was going to get a start based on their performance againt Georgia or Portugal.

    A second choice team playing tier 2 opposition is good, but it's not the as good as getting gametime in the full strength team in the 6N. This has been much more useful to those players than the summer tour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Yeah, of course, but players have to show performances and form in those sort of games to justify making the step up too.

    It's no coincidence that there's a lot of Ulster players involved this season when their form has increased materially versus the last couple of years. A guy like Nathan Doak wasn't capped in the summer, he was behind Ben Murphy then, but his good form this season has seen him leapfrog him and earn a cap. Same with Paddy McCarthy in November.

    We've quietly built out some good depth options across a number of positions in the past 12 months or so, but there is obviously still some work to do there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,864 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Is he quick enough to play 13? I'd have him as our slowest back apart from James Lowe.

    Feel like he could be more of a 12



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,954 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Ireland are there for the taking, says Scotland’s Darcy Graham ahead of Six Nations clash
    Scottish winger says Ireland have ‘not been firing as ⁠well as they have in previous ​campaigns’

    https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/2026/03/10/ireland-are-there-for-the-taking-says-scotlands-darcy-graham-ahead-of-six-nations-clash/

    You love to hear it!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,626 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I feel we need to get our centres sorted if we're going to successfully transition to a new attack. We just aren't getting close to the same level of creativity and play making that we need right now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    This isn't the GAA all stars fella. We can't be moving lads around.

    You'll be slotting James Ryan in at 15 next 😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Menoncello has started two games in this Championship at 13 - against us and against France.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,954 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    I think thats fair enough. If you were to be harsh you could also add that defensively he's not particularly strong in the wider channel.

    Makes sense and I see what the implications are - Ringrose! He was never the Hugh Jones type of strike runner but he's basically playing like a crash-ball merchant these days.

    Selfless and the very definition of the much maligned 'unseen work'. I have no qualms about saying that Nienaber has stunted his attacking instincts. Maybe some of his defensive ones also. Would you drop him?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    Job done so. Would be some partnership to see week in week out.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,626 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Much to Clegg's eye rolling 😋, I would have liked to see us try another option there. Either Osborne, or one of the younger lads. I think opposition defenses aren't worried about any threat coming from Ringrose, and our attack suffers doubly because of that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,954 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭Felexicon




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,954 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Thats fair enough. He's so unwilling to give a pass/make a break and also the constant diving back in-field - It must also be following some sort of instructions to do this?

    Plan A - Gary gets the ball. Get on his inside shoulder. He's going to set-up another ruck.

    Plan B - See above but just be aware if he makes the break and be ready for a pop pass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Ringrose was outperforming Huw Jones on the Lions tour last summer, and was actually featuring well as a strike runner etc. He scored 3 tries in 4 appearances, and was going to start the second test but for withdrawing himself from selection.

    His form since then has been mixed at best and often poor enough IMO. I don't think it's Nienaber who deserves the criticism here, I just think he's not playing particularly well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,954 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Just to add - if you were to give me the option of a SMcC-GR or ST-HJones centre partnership; I'd take Ireland's everyday of the week.

    The selflessness is one of the reasons why I think Ireland will win the Triple Crown.

    Sorry, but I beg to differ on Nienaber!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Nienaber at all, and would be glad to see him gone. Leinster's defence, something that was actually never really an issue at all, has actively gotten materially worse by almost any conceivable metric since we imposed his strategy.

    I don't think it does Ringrose any favours - he was previously someone who IMO was good at picking his moments to shoot etc, and I don't think pure missed tackle stats in a blitz defence tell the full story, but his actual tackling quality is worse of late. Maybe it's a confidence thing after a few head knocks or maybe it's something different, but I wouldn't necessarily place it on Nienaber.

    In attack - we collectively as a side have looked more stilted of late, and we're consistently attacking quite narrowly. I dunno if this is by design or we just lose our shape too quickly (sometimes this is definitely what happens), but Ringrose is just lacking sharpness here too IMO and picking bad options.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,954 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Yep, couldnt agree more: Confidence, type (defensive) of rugby at Leinster etc

    I agree; it does Ringrose no favours at all. It has, in part, also blunted his attacking skills to me though. He's feckin exhausted by the time he actually gets the ball. Basically he's out of practice in attack.

    Post edited by ionadnapóca on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,626 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I would've agreed with you last season, but tbh the Scottish combo is playing much better in aggregate, as Jones has maintained and improved on his Lions performance.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,954 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    We'll both know more after Saturday!

    Cant wait.



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