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Star Trek: Starfleet Academy S1-E09 "300th Night" ***Spoilers Within***

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 620 ✭✭✭eadrom


    "800 years later" doesn't change anything

    Take just half a moment to think about where science was just 100 years ago from today, then another half a moment to reconsider whether 800 years might change something.

    fine so what happened to the Omega directive?

    The burn happened, presumably. Or possibly any number of things. It's been 800 years.

    Questioning whether someone watches the show rather than addressing the points here is pretty lazy dude.

    I addressed each and every one of your points, dude. And they seem to be missing some information that was clearly said in the show itself, and other information that could easily be extrapolated from the set and setting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,079 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    The fixation on one minor plot point is baffling to me anyway - I know this is a franchise which attracts nit-pickers, but how would these people have survived in the era of "invert the polarity of the deflector beam" nonsense?

    Unlike with a few things (Red Angel, the Arrival-knockoffs in S4, etc) in Discovery, the Omega plot point in SFA is not merely a gimmick meant to underpin the plot mechanics for an entire season - it's the inciting incident for a two-parter that's more interested in testing characters we've seen grow and change over a season. Discovery never convincingly showed character progress, but we've seen the cadets change and mature over the 9 episodes this year.

    Focusing on the "scientific implausibility" (which is very debatable anyway) or supposed canon mistakes (which they aren't) is just not what I come to Star Trek for. I didn't care about how the Prophets were often magic wands in DS9, why Ben Sisko was experiencing a vision of a 1950s writer, how Picard wouldn't be left utterly traumatised by an entire lifetime lived and yet not lived in Inner Light, etc.

    What I cared about was how occasionally bending the rules of the universe would let the writers create brilliant and imaginative stories.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,862 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    I've already said.. 800 years.. 1000 years… Omega is still the same, to think that the Federation would authorise messing around with Omega.. which doesn't change due to Physics! Plus the fact that Janeway and Starfleet at the time destroyed any research on Omega… and now After the burn they're messing around with something which was completely destroyed and buried… stupid.. come up with your own ideas about this in your own head as you will.

    Anyways this show is full of many more massive plot holes other than this one and awful writing/acting, plus this is can be regarded as a non-Canon show just like JJ Trek for example.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 620 ✭✭✭eadrom


    What about the physics of the Omega molecule would prevent them from synthesising it again, given that both the Federation and at least two other species were capable of doing so hundreds of years ago?

    They weren't even that far off from stabilising it. In the Voyager episode, Seven managed to stabilise it for a few seconds. The original Omega Directive was put in place because of an accident, not because Starfleet's initial attempts to stabilise it (again, hundreds and hundreds of years ago) were entirely unsuccessful.

    Since then, as others pointed out above, they've had 'The Burn' which wiped out warp travel anyway. Even if we can't imagine any other possible reason in 800 years, that seems like a reasonable one for abandoning or re-thinking the original Omega Directive.

    I mean look it, I didn't love this little plot device either. Never a big fan of these galaxy-wide threats they're so keen on in modern Trek. But this level of nit-picking is just silly – we've had far worse than "Omega-47" in the last 60 years of Star Trek.

    Sure most people love the one where they sling-shot around the sun to travel back in time to find some whales to save the day. What in the ever loving Trek was that about.

    Or the torpedo that regenerates not only entire planets, but also well loved characters.

    Or the space rainbow that grants you your every wish but just isn't enough for our hero, Picard, and lets you pick up old cast members and hop back out at any time you want but somehow not meet yourself and why did he go there anyway and not a little earlier and.. I just. What the **** was that anyway.

    Or… etc. etc. etc. etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,862 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    .. So… The Omega Directive wasn’t created because Starfleet had a lab accident! It exists because Omega permanently destroys subspace, which warp travel depends on. That’s a physical consequence, not something 800 years of science fixes.Seven stabilising it for a few seconds with Borg nanoprobes isn’t the same thing as safely producing, storing and weaponising it. And after a galaxy-wide warp catastrophe like the Burn, experimenting with something that destroys subspace would logically be the last thing Starfleet should be doing! The Borg couldn't do it and they were centuries or millennia ahead of the Federation technologically!

    Like does anyone who's replied to me here know that whole point of the Omega Directive was that Omega is the one discovery Starfleet refuses to study. Synthesising and storing it contradicts the reason the directive exists.

    If a Starfleet Academy class can locate the bar Benjamin Sisko visited hundreds of years earlier, it’s hard to believe the Omega Directive somehow vanished from their databanks. You’d expect Omega detection protocols to be permanently embedded in Starfleet systems..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 620 ✭✭✭eadrom


    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Omega_molecule

    A single Omega molecule was synthesized in the late 23rd century by the Starfleet physicist Ketteract on board a classified research station in the Lantaru sector. The molecule remained stable for a fraction of a second before it exploded.

    By the late 24th century, Starfleet had come to the conclusion that Omega molecules represented a threat not only to the Federation, but to the entire galaxy. A chain reaction involving a handful of molecules could devastate subspace throughout an entire quadrant. If that were to happen, subspace capabilities like Warp drive and subspace communications would be rendered impossible.

    (in the 800 years since that happened, Warp drive and subspace communications were already rendered impossible).

    Another civilization in the Delta Quadrant was actually successful in synthesizing some two hundred million Omega molecules in 2374. They were able to keep the molecules stable.

    By 3195, Starfleet had developed Omega-47, a synthetic variant of the Omega molecule with a destructive capacity in the same apocalyptic range as the regular Omega molecule.

    800+ years and one "burn" later. And it's not even the same thing necessarily, it's a variant.

    :shrug:



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,862 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    The Omega Directive exists because the consequences of failure are permanent. Stabilising it doesn’t change that, the risk is unacceptable, not because the science was impossible.

    Variant or not, if it still destroys subspace then the policy logic behind the Omega Directive hasn’t changed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 620 ✭✭✭eadrom


    Except that it did change though. Evidently.

    You don’t like that it did, fair enough. But it’s not a canon busting plot hole. It’s just something that happened in the near millennium of history we haven’t seen on screen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 620 ✭✭✭eadrom


    And in fact, sorry, I misread you there slightly.

    if it still destroys subspace then the policy logic behind the Omega Directive hasn’t changed.

    But one of the biggest most headlined era-defining story points of this whole branch of Star Trek series is that the Burn already destroyed subspace! The logic behind the Omega Directive absolutely would have changed, for obvious reasons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,862 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    The Burn didn’t destroy subspace, it destabilised dilithium which caused warp drives to fail. Subspace itself was still intact, which is why warp travel eventually returned. Omega is a completely different problem because it permanently ruptures subspace itself, which is exactly why the Omega Directive existed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,780 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    It didn't destroy subspace, all the dilithium blew up



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 620 ✭✭✭eadrom


    Yes, sorry, yous are right. But the outcome was vastly similar. Or at the least was enough of a cataclysmic event which might lead you to imagine that some decisions around the safety of particular research projects might be re-evaluated.

    And anyway, again, it's been so long. I'm just speculating a possible reason why things might have changed. There could be countless others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,862 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Sure, policies could change over centuries. But the Omega Directive was written as an absolute standing order: detect Omega and destroy it immediately, even overriding Starfleet Command. That’s why Starfleet apparently synthesising and storing it is at odds with the original premise in Canon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 620 ✭✭✭eadrom


    Yes, policies could indeed change over centuries.

    And, apparently, they have.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,862 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Well assuming that it's no longer the case, it’s a pretty big canon shift that the show never really addresses..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,678 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Canon is almost as painful a term as woke in these conversations.

    In Canon Troi and Riker can speak telepathically, Trills have head ridges and the Enterprise is a United Earth starship



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,862 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Trek has always adjusted details over time, but that’s different from ignoring a core piece of lore like the Omega Directive without explanation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 620 ✭✭✭eadrom


    Core piece of lore? It was one episode.

    And I thought your issue was that “one person manages to steal this previously destroyed never to be heard of again top secret molecule and that one person weaponises it against the entire Federation” – because not even the Borg could do that!

    You only seemed to care about this core price of important canon lore after it was pointed out that none of what you originally said actually happened the way you said it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,678 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,079 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    I wouldn't bother engaging with users who clearly don't watch the show and just read plot summaries so they can get into childish arguments on forums



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,678 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Its disappointing but not surprising that we are getting another big apocalyptic season finale. Mining the entirety of Federation space is just a bit implausible.

    The gang stealing the shuttle and entering hostile space was enough and didn't need this extra bit.

    I can see it end with something awful like that lecturer getting the Jem Hadar to fly in Rohan style to save the day. Probably joined by Klingon boys family and the holo planet. Also Genesis father will be in command of the Federation fleet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,862 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    If personal digs are all you have left to say then the discussion on the actual show is over so.

    Play the ball not the man..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,862 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    The whole plot of SFA is implausible, at least we are starting to agree rather than taking snipping personal attacks like the other lad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,079 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Yeah I said it in my original post, but I was hoping we would get through this season without Nus Braka being some galaxy-level threat, as I felt they were doing a solid job of making him a "thorn in the side" Gul Dukat-type villain, rather than someone with Grand Evil Plans.

    At the same time, I was glad that it turned out to not be about Braka actually wanting to use the Omega-47 as a weapon, but about the 'boxing in' of the Federation. I do think that leaves space for the finale to be less bombastic and more personal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Galactic threats have been completely done to death now and just not that interesting.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



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