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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,315 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I know I mentioned, it was a poor kick, there was really no need for you to waste your time trawling through posts to try and point score

    If we got the BP v Italy, we'd need a **** load of scores next week to pass out France assuming they only get a win.

    The whole discussion is an attempt to try and put some blame on Jack even though kicking a ball to touch has never ever been a score in itself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,403 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    That’s fair enough. Players make mistakes.

    Just seemed like your whole post was doing what you’re accusing others of doing by trying to put some blame of Dan Sheehan even though a 5m tap and go has never ever been a score in itself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,315 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Did you see the post I replied to? Why didn't you take it up with that poster.

    In all likelihood the loss of a BP against Italy is not going to be the championship decider but it's nice to have a go at Jack about it while ignoring Dan about his error.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,403 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    I didn’t think there was much in the post you replied to (although I have no idea if there’s a history between you and the other poster) and you echoed the same thoughts during the game. Tit for tat arguments are what drag this place down in my opinion and best not to get involved. Otherwise you’re become part of the problem and it never ends.

    Hopefully the lack of a BP win against Italy doesn’t decide anything. In fairness we were lucky to get out of it with a win so we got what we deserved at the end of the day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,315 ✭✭✭✭phog


    So you didn't see much in the original post but mine deserved your attention, interesting.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,403 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    So you perceived that a poster commented negatively on a player who plays for your team by changing the argument and blaming a guy who plays on their team (I’m assuming the other poster is a supporter of that team).

    I called out your post as I see you regularly accusing others of bringing provincial bickering into threads, yet here you are doing it yourself. Anyway let’s leave it there and stop clogging up this thread further.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 36,918 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,403 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    IMG_7353.jpeg IMG_7352.jpeg

    Quite interesting to see our offload stats comparing the whole 6N last year (25) to 41 this year after just 4 games. Shows how we’re trying to expand our game whilst England appear to be becoming less expansive or at best stalling in that aspect.

    I thought the game was going kick heavy in November and kicks are up slightly but looks like the game is already moving towards offloading. England have made the most kicks in open play with 123 and France are in 4th with 118. We’ve made 120 over 4 games. Scotland are the outliers with just 93.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,011 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I posted this last month and at the time I think I was correct? Everything we'd seen up to the start of the Six Nations suggested England had a settled game plan that most nations couldn't compete with.

    I'm at a complete loss to why it has gone tits up. Their kicking strategy is no longer effective and that's fair enough. Teams are better at scouting the England slap down and they're flooding that area now to prevent England regathering possession and launching quick transition attacks. But it's like Borthwick just expected his same strategy to work all the time with no new layers or wrinkles in attack added on. Once the aerial game stopped working they had no other points of attack. That's a coaching failure

    But the players have looked so laboured across the pitch too. Not winning collisions, getting bunched up right in defence to leave dog legs etc. Seems like as an entire group the players and coaches have both slumped at the same time.

    Post edited by Clegg on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,500 ✭✭✭almostover


    Posted that a while back, he's at approx. 80% vs. 70% approx for the other 2.

    Basically if they each have 10 kicks, Doak is getting 8 and the other two are getting 7.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,500 ✭✭✭almostover


    If Wales beat Italy with a BP it'll be a dilemma whether I want to see England lose and get the wooden spoon or beat France and allow us a shot at the title.

    Assuming we beat Scotland which is a major assumption after today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,403 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    England currently remind me a bit of Ireland 2019. They look like they’ve been worked out. They tried to double down on the kick chase today. They still managed to win a few turnovers off box kicks from jackalling but none of the ‘crumbs’ have seemed to go their way in the last few games whereas in Autumn they ran in a decent number of tries from breaking ball.

    It’s quite a telegraphed attack strategy as they set up before kicking so defensive teams have plenty of time to get players around the catcher. You’re also seeing some defensive players benefiting from slowly tracking back. Joe McCarthy attempted a block down on the scrum half and the ball ended up getting slapped back to him before he put his kick in on Friday. Not a bad idea to leave a player behind the attacking teams line in case the ball bounces through.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,403 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    I feel more confident playing Scotland after the performance they put in today. Hard to see them getting to the same emotional and physical pitch again next weekend. I think we on the other hand have plenty to improve on and an extra day of rest/no travel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,599 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    People are losing their minds if they think Ireland aren't rightful favourites to beat scotland at home.

    Not that it won't be tight but we are absolute and clear favourites, even in terms of form, even in Edinburgh we'd be slightly favourites.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 334 ✭✭Billy_the_Kid
    Master


    Crowleys inexplicable missed touch against Italy at 80 mins is really coming back to haunt us. This is elite level rugby.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It was an abysmal error and one he inexplicably got little heat over, but it doesnt really make a massive difference. Would only really matter if we get a non TBP win and France get a two BP loss.

    On the other end Italy can technically overtake us but if we get hammered by Scotland the missed touch is the least of our problems.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭ersatz


    I was thinking the same about the 2019 comparison, a very structured game that gets figured out but one that’s based less on skill and dynamism than on set piece and method, difficult for players in a system like that to adjust on the fly, particularly when other teams are embracing a more unstructured system that thrives on broken play.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭ElisaAtWar


    We have players in a learning process and players who are excess to requirements. Surely you just work the problem



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,315 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Can you explain how you think that missed touch finder is haunting us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Its not difficult, it cost us the opportunity to get a 4th try and a bonus point.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,315 ✭✭✭✭phog


    We know what it potentially cost us , just like Dan jumping the tackle cost us the BP.

    The question (which you know full well) was to the poster who claims it's coming back to haunt us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    That missed BP could be the difference between final positions next weekend. But you already knew that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 492 ✭✭letsseehere14


    Potentially. But the point he is making is that Sheehans mistake was as if not more costly r.e the bonus point but many here are only focusing on Crowleys kick which was bad, while ignoring others mistakes. Thats the point.

    Calling him out while ignoring others shows the hypocrisy of it all. A 5m lineout is not a guaranteed try. Sheehans try was. So the comments bringing up his kick v Italy are a thinly veiled means of having a kick at him. If they weren't, the posters would bring up the other opportunities for a try we left behind. But they don't.

    I said it here a few weeks ago, and everything since in my mind has backed my opinion up. This wasn't about Prendergast. It was about Crowley and it took getting to a point where Prendergasts performances couldn't be justified anymore that a pivot by many then went to Byrne and Frawley. Anyone but Crowley.

    I left it there because it was so toxic but its continued here.

    Facts are we win a six nations with Crowley at 10 in his first starting season. Lead NZ in a test match before he was substituted and drew a series away to S.A the current world champions. And now when Crowley came on against Italy we were facing down a home loss to Italy after an embarrassment away to France, two losses from 2. But its turned around with him at 10 to 3 wins, a home game for a triple crown and the possibility of a championship.

    Hes not Sexton or an O'Gara. His place kicking is sus and needs improvement but he's our best option at 10 and we are in the position we are now, with a chance for a triple crown and a championship in some big part because of him not in spite of him but many here just want to pile on.

    Our 10 situation has improved with him now starting both defensively and in attack.

    9 is now just as big an issue with inconsistent performances.

    Biggest issue is our scrum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,315 ✭✭✭✭phog


    But the point he is making is that Sheehans mistake was as if not more costly

    No, I'm not making that point at all about the kick haunting us.

    France got a BP in the 4 games they've played, we got two from our four.

    The lack of one isn't haunting us now and probably won't haunt us next week BUT if it does then surely any fair minded fan wouldn't just pin that on the missed kick when we had two opportunities to score a try and the two were butchered

    Again though, I'd like the OP to explain why they think it is haunting us or is it just a dig at Jack which seems far more likely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,011 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    It's amazing we're still at the point where people won't accept that Sam Prendergast was picked ahead of Crowley because he was playing better than the latter. He hasn't been perfect but there have been enough good performances in blue and green to justify his continued selection.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,315 ✭✭✭✭phog


    the point where people won't accept that Sam Prendergast was picked ahead of Crowley because he was playing better

    As a matter of interest, where are seeing this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    A France England draw, unlikely as it is, and an Irish win without a TBP leaves us level with France but they have a better PD. So there is a scenario where missing out on BPs matters.

    Big Moments. Like Billy Burns v Wales in 2021, poor kick cost us an opportunity of a win.

    Like george ford missing touch twice in the first 20 minutes in Twickenham cost England big time.

    For all those blaming Sexton for the place kicking issues, Crowley is working with Dave Aldred according to an article in the papers today



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,073 ✭✭✭typhoony


    If Scotland can even play to 80% of that France performance against us we are beat. We're operating a good bit lower than our form of 2024. Ignore our performance against England as they are shambles. Put Finn Russell under pressure and we have a chance



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Scotland had ridiculously quick ball yesterday. We need Beirne, VDF and Doris to be lurking behind tackles looking to get on the ball at rucks.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,403 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    It’s very hard to put in big back to back performances. We see it all the time.


    2019 NZ hammering us in the QF, then getting hammered the following week by England who then got hammered by SA.

    2023 Us hammering Scotland then not getting to the same peak against NZ. SA beating France and then limping past a poor England team in the semi final.

    Us struggling to find the same intensity and accuracy we showed against England when we played Wales on Friday despite having a rest week. Scotland hammered England and just about got over the line against Wales a week later.

    I’d be more worried if Scotland had been blown away. They’re obviously a very talented team who can tear you apart but they struggle to put it together consistently. I don’t think they’ll manage to do it two weeks in a row. Famous last words and all that..



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