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New Ongar to Barnhill Road

124

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,973 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Open to correction but that park is 10 times the size and last road built was 100 yes ago. They've actually closed roads.

    "...Efforts to limit traffic in the Bois de Boulogne are part of a broader Paris initiative to reduce car dominance, improve air quality, and enhance green spaces by 2030, connecting the park with surrounding areas like the Champs-Élysées. These campaigns aim to pedestrianize major axes, increase trees, and transform car-heavy zones into recreational areas..."



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    I’ll repeat what I said before: the land of that park used be privately owned, then it was bought by the council and turned into a park, then the locals started saying it was their park and that no road building would be allowed. We can’t keep having it both ways, if there’s going to be housing development in the area there must be supporting infrastructure.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    What you’re proposing here makes no sense. How would you get from the red line to the N4 westbound? What about all east facing ramps? The N4 is far above the river at this point so any bridge would be very intrusive.

    The M50 tolls go to a private company so the government doesn’t benefit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭Deep Thought


    was my understanding that the idea of going through Catherine’s park was drafted by a company who didn’t even know it was a park.. they just assumed green space. 

    The park was owned by one of the university’s ( I think DCU) we always called it the spud farm and we used to pick fruit there during the summer for a few quid.

    We pay taxes to facilitate the ability for Councils to acquire land to make parks for people to enjoy.

    But let’s ignore all that and facilitate a road through the middle of it.

    The narrower a man’s mind, the broader his statements.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    We need to aspire to have roads better than goat tracks connecting major areas like Lucan and Clonee.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭Polar101


    It's pretty easy to get from Clonee to Lucan on "good" roads.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    This is not what a good road looks like.

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/n73ZvNS81SjbTehp6



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭mattser


    It's no highway but absolutely fit for purpose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭Deep Thought


    Any new road as mentioned will end up hitting Larachon and then Lucan village. Unless you are going to plough through or over the village any new road is pointless as the it can only carry so much traffic.

    Many alternatives to get to Lucan

    the road is fine, maybe if drivers drive per the conditions and not like they are at Mondello .

    The narrower a man’s mind, the broader his statements.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Hard disagree. By that logic you’d never build any road.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭Polar101




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 159 ✭✭Pale Red




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 795 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    We also pay taxes to faciliatate the ability for Councils to acquire lands to build safe roads for communities.

    But let's ignore all that and do nothing and let people die for a field.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    It is not an option! It is far longer, has a toll, is heavily congested and worst of all has no sustainable transport facilities.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,882 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Define a "good road" - is it one for residential traffic to access an urban centre or wide straight one connecting the N3 & N4 (as an M50 bypass if you will)?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 795 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    It is not safe for pedestrians or cyclists. It is too small for the local traffic.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    …and that requires a completely new road as opposed to widening the existing one with some realignments?

    (Being pedantic: the road is safe for pedestrians and cyclists - it is other road users who make it unsafe!)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭mackerski




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 795 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    A 30km speed limit on that road, if adhered to, mightn't be enough for the safety of pedestrians and cyclists.

    The level of traffic is such that it is dangerous.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    You've ignored both points that I made.

    The current road could be widened and straightened quite easily. Road safety isn't a justification for an entirely new road, especially one through a public park where you get many pedestrians and cyclists. So, it all comes back to what exactly is the justification for the new road?

    Roads or traffic levels in themselves aren't dangerous. It is driver behaviour that is dangerous (but this is pretty much irrelevant in the context of the discussion anyhow).

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 795 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    Widening and straightening the road could have an impact on residential properties, I am not familiar enough with the road to know.

    Secondly, using the existing road brings it into Lucan village and the congested mess therein. The alternate through St. Catherine's Park was designed to avoid that.

    Either way, the purchase of extra land beside Catherine's opens up the possibility of repurposing some of the existing park for the road, while still maintaining the same size of amenity.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Widening and straightening the road could have an impact on residential properties, I am not familiar enough with the road to know.

    So why make a point on something that you admit not being familiar with?
    For reference, I am familiar enough with it as a driver, a cyclist and as a pedestrian! Now I'm not a civil engineer but I am somewhat familiar with how road widening practices are followed.

    Secondly, using the existing road brings it into Lucan village and the congested mess therein. The alternate through St. Catherine's Park was designed to avoid that.

    So what exactly is the purpose of the new road? Is it to facilitate new housing development or to link the N4 & N3 reasonably close to an eight lane motorway?

    Either way, the purchase of extra land beside Catherine's opens up the possibility of repurposing some of the existing park for the road, while still maintaining the same size of amenity.

    This moves the park further away from the existing residential access points meaning that if people want to walk there, there is an increased likleihood that they will use a car.

    Plus a significant amenity to the existing park is along the river. Are you seriously thinking that a new road won't affect that or that because some land further north has been provided that it is a meaningful substitute?
    Using your logic, the council could soon decide to buy more land even further north on a continuous roation and eventually the entire park will be north of Clonee?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 795 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    There are plans to link the park to the Royal Canal greenway through a pedestrian/cycle bridge, so extension northwards is possible.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I'm not sure of the plans you are referring to but if the council were to connect the canal to the park (which are separated simply by the rail line), then they would need to ensure that the surface along the canal towpath is sufficient that all users can use it. But there is no plan to upgrade the towpath surface and it will remain as a rough surface unsuitable for most bicycles, buggies, wheelchairs, etc.
    There may be a pipe dream that embellishes a council document but there are no plans to my knowledge.

    Anyhow, adding one end of a bridge into the park is not the same as my point about moving the park further north to use your logic!

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 795 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    The good news is that while the plans are somewhat dormant, I understand that the upgrade of the greenway is going to planning later this year. Some work has already taken place.

    https://www.dbfl.ie/project/royal-canal-urban-greenway/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,882 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Its got a footpath out to the canal bridge, pedestrian lighting at the Park entrance, public lighting past the Park entrance and its no worse than 90% of older roads for bikes where they have to mix it with routine vehicular traffic. You simply can't have dedicated cycle superhighways on every route.

    The road is perfectly fine. If people don't like it, they can route through Leixlip village or the back of Intel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,056 ✭✭✭donaghs


    I suspect most people will prefer an intact park. As urbanisation increase and our population contiunues to shoot up, these green spaces are more precious. Some people will alway want better roads to get from some place to another place, but it dont think thats the "greater good" option.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭yannakis


    There are detailed plans on the SHD website. You'll recognise the road layout :)
    https://barnhillgardenvillageshd.ie/planning-application-drawings/architecture/

    image.png

    Irish Rail also have plans for the Barberstown Level Crossing (in the screenshot, north is not up - see compass).
    https://www.dartplus.ie/en-ie/railwayorder/dartwest

    image.png


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    It’s unclear why new roads to facilitate new development and improving connections are commonly built elsewhere in Dublin but not here. The park would have the new road running alongside not through the middle do it wouldn’t be damaged by it. The council shouldn’t have given in to the locals on this.

    We need many more Liffey crossings in west Dublin. There is opposition to providing them that can only be described as weird.

    Widening the existing road is never done in Ireland for environmental reasons which are probably clear.

    The road is perfectly fine. If people don't like it, they can route through Leixlip village or the back of Intel.

    I assume you mean the pinch point in Leixlip village and the goat track around the back of Intel with its lovely 1-lane bridge.
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/PzepESUPKN3LdM4R7



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