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Israel/Palestine Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,011 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    But James Murphy from Galway had or has a right to live on land in America originally lived on by native Americans?

    Absolutely nobody has said this.

    It's difficult to know whether this non sequitur is just genuinely stupid or willfully ignorant.

    The Jews have been in the middle east much longer than any Muslims.

    Which Jews? Most Jews who go to Palestine and kick Arab families off of their land have no more connection or right to that land than an Inuit from Alaska.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭malibu4u


    You miss the point. Do you accept that Jew have a right to live in the middle east or not? They cannot live in countries like Saudi Arabia. Even Christians, never mind Jews, cannot build a place of worship there. Israel only occupies a thousanth of the land in the middle east.

    Is a thousandth of the land too much to ask for, seeing as the Jews were there first, long before Muslims? Historically the Jews have faced much persecution throughout history when in a minority: look at what happened to Jews in Iran, to Jews in Europe a few generations ago etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,990 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    @malibu4u did you learn something re above? Do I even get a thank you? I have more to share.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭malibu4u


    Do you accept that Israel withdrew from Gaza 2 decades ago, but supplied them with water and electricity and just wanted to be good neighbours , or at least peaceful neighbours, with them?

    But instead Iran smuggled missiles and arms in to Gaza which Hamas there used to attack Israel? And Hamas invaded on Oct 7th?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    Post edited by Leg End Reject on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,990 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Finally! Let's take it slowly now. Let's start with these 4 questions.

    So did you read the 2 links?

    Were Israel considered an Occupying Power post 2005?

    How were Israeli controlling living conditions in the "open air prison" post 2005?

    How did the economy and infrastructure fare post the 2005 Blockade by Israel?

    Post edited by Cluedo Monopoly on

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,514 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    You have already been provided with factual information on all of these points by multiple posters.

    Repeating the misinformation ad nauseum will never make it true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,011 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    You miss the point

    You're "point" is a non sequitur. It doesn't apply.

    Do you accept that Jew have a right to live in the middle east or not?

    Israel had its borders laid down in 1947. I don't have an issue with Jews moving to somewhere within those borders.

    However, I do not accept that someone who claims to be a Jew, whether through ethnicity or religion, should be able to go to a country that they, or their great, great, great, great, grandparents, never even set foot in and be able to steal someone else's land that has had a history of Arab generations living on it.

    That is what is happening in the west bank. Israel is also annexing other territory with a view to future colonisation. They have constantly moved outside of the borders of what was formally agreed as "Israel" and have been doing that for decades.

    Do you think it is right that someone claiming to be a Jew, whether through an ethnic line or simply by religion (even through conversion) can go to Arab land in the west bank and kick off families that have been living there for numerous generations and steal that land? It's a yes or no question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭malibu4u


    You are aware thar Jews BOUGHT some land in Israel?

    Quote:Jews purchased significant amounts of land in Palestine—primarily through organizations like the Jewish National Fund (JNF) and Jewish Colonization Association—starting in the late 19th century and accelerating before 1948.

    Also, you do know many Jews were hunted off many of their properties in the 20th century in the middle east, and even Europe, without compensation?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,011 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Answer the I asked you.

    Do you think it is right that someone claiming to be a Jew, whether through an ethnic line or simply by religion (even through conversion) can go to Arab land in the west bank and kick off families that have been living there for numerous generations and steal that land? It's a yes or no question.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭malibu4u


    I never said either side was completely right, but there is a lot more to it than many people here know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,011 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Answer the question. It is a yes or no answer. You either believe that it is right or wrong. You attempts at weaseling out of that isn't going to work.

    For the last time…

    Do you think it is right that someone claiming to be a Jew, whether through an ethnic line or simply by religion (even through conversion) can go to Arab land in the west bank and kick off families that have been living there for numerous generations and steal that land?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,514 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    With respect, posters here following events in Gaza for over two years are (mostly) well informed on current events and the history behind it.

    You've posted multiple times that, in your opinion, many people here don't know "the truth" or "the full picture".

    Have you considered that the consistent debunking of your "facts" by multiple contributors could actually show that it is you that is deficient in knowledge of this topic?

    That you constantly deflect and avoid answering questions seems to me to indicate that you really need to brush up on your "facts" in order to debate in good faith.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭malibu4u


    What did I say that is not true? Everything I wrote was true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,514 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    No it isn't. Assertions you have posted have been shown multiple times to be false or questionable and multiple corroborated facts provided as evidence to the contrary.

    You seem unwilling to take this on board and simply continue to assert your alternative reality. It's really tiresome.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,990 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,517 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    What other religion demands is own sovereign nation, occupying another people's lands on the process?

    Why should the religion of Judaism need it's own state? Every other religion exists as an ethnicity within a sovereign state.

    There were Jews living in Palestine prior to 1939. These are the Jews you are referring to when you say "Jews lived there before Muslims".... They were still living there in the turn of the 20th century. They were and are semitic Jews.

    The Jews that emigrated to Palestine between 39 and 48, we're not semitic Jews, they were Western Jews with no familial connection to Palestine. They occupied Palestine lands by force, displacing 700,000 Palestine in the process.

    THAT is why they should not be there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,052 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    You're stating that "muslim" and "jew" are ethnicitys. They aren't. Palestinians and Sephardic Jews share common ancestry.

    https://www.science.org/content/article/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭malibu4u


    I do not even recall using the word "ethnicity". Please quote something I wrote if you think I wrote something not true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    Did you ever hear about the Holocaust? Jewish people were running away from Europe and Nazi Germany in particular in fear and returning home between 1939 and 1948.

    If you view that as anything other than deserved and correct, then you are guilty of more than ignorance of history.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,762 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    When you see Irish people on the political right still defending the US as the good guys and casting any criticism of US foreign policy as knee jerk reactionism it says a lot too. Of course they don't plea for such nuance regarding the other sides history! In conclusion, despite what apologists on here would have you believe, criticism of US foreign policy is perfectly rational. The only people who dont think so are either ignorant of their dark history or they are aware of it, but are disingenous hypocrites who condemn actions based purely on who is doing them. Which is why you haven't been able to give your opinion on what Israel has done in Gaza. Presumably the same reason why you selectively support invasions to stop civilians being killed.

    Post edited by nacho libre on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,990 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    Nobody has a problem with Jewish people fleeing areas of persecution, but they don't have a right to go somewhere and demand land. The people living in the region didn't gift the land for the Israel state, USA & UK did, that was a questionable decision, that area wasn't originally owned by just Jewish people it was thousands of years of both Arab and Jewish nomadic people that over time settled. The best argument put was the bible says the land was left to the Jewish people and if thats the argument it shows how stupid that position is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭malibu4u


    Are you aware that Jews purchased significant amounts of land in Palestine—primarily through organizations like the Jewish National Fund (JNF) and Jewish Colonization Association—starting in the late 19th century and accelerating before 1948?

    Are you aware Jews were in the middle east thousands of years before any Muslims were?

    Are you aware Israrl is a tiny country, only one thousanth the size of the middle east, and surrounded by Muslim countries?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,052 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    "Is a thousandth of the land too much to ask for, seeing as the Jews were there first, long before Muslims?" conflates religion and ethnicity.

    Likewise

    "Especially when Jews have been in the middle east long before there were any Muslims there."

    "Are you aware Jews were in the middle east thousands of years before any Muslims were?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭malibu4u


    And you have not answered any of them. As regards religion and ethnicity, the innocent Jews that Hamas attacked on Oct 7th, or dragged back to Gaza were not asked about their ethnicity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,052 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    I have answered them - religion is not the same as ethnicity. Many Jews are genetically related to Muslims and share common ancestry, therefore this 'Jews were there first' is a nonsense and untrue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭malibu4u


    And yet you say all of the middle east was the muslims land and the Israel is wrong to be on 00.1% of it. Even though there are plenty of Muslims quite happy in Israel, working in their hospitals, army etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,052 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    And yet you say all of the middle east was the muslims land

    I've never stated that. The middle east is made up of multiple religions and ethnicities.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭malibu4u


    You did the finish the sentence. All countries in the middle east are Muslim majority countries, and Countries with almost entirely Muslim populations include Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Yemen. Jews are not even allowed live in Saudi Arabia.

    Did you know Israel is only a thousanth the area of the middle east? And it has hundreds of mosques.



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