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Ireland vs Israel - To play or not to play, that is the question Read OP for Mod Warning

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,692 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Those countries combined got Russia banned from playing football.

    That did not do anything to help the people of Ukraine.

    You keep referencing Russia as a reason to boycott the game.

    To be clear your aim is to get Israel banned from football which will do nothing to help the people of Palestine.

    The goal is to damage Irish football and job losses to Irish people in the hope that we will damage Israel football.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,790 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Those twitter bot views are what the Palestinians need alright.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Benedict XVI


    Yes I'd agree with that statement.

    But I also think that we in the western world are better off with westward focused Israel being dominant in the area than the Islamists like the Palestinians.

    Why do people support Ukraine?

    Because they prefer westward looking Ukraine over eastern Russia.

    We think we have more in common with them.

    Why can't the same be true for the Middle East?

    I often think about a posts here I saw years ago in one of these Isreal/Palestine threads about a gay man who was all for the Palestinian cause and who went to visit the Gaza strip to show solidarity with them.

    He completely changed his outlook when he realized how gay people were treated by Palestinians and how much more welcomed he was in Israel.

    We need to support Israel, not the Palestinians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,210 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Benedict XVI


    I doesn't really matter.

    I know that tens of thousands of Palestinians were killed.

    But if the shoe was on the other foot tens of thousands of Israeli people would be killed.

    There are stories of tens of thousands of Iranians being killed by their own government in the space of a few weeks, yet people are now angry that that government is coming under fire, literally.

    And as I said I'd prefer Israel to be dominant than Palestine, my opinion.

    But all of this is off topic for the thread.

    The match will go ahead, people will go and wear Palestinian paraphernalia, there will be protests, the Israeli anthem and players will be booed.

    But it won't make a bit of difference and in years to come the people with that Palestinian paraphernalia will be looking back and wondering WTF was I doing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    And do you think, given the cost of living is going up again given the current middle east issues, people will be more concerned with Palestine now, or the ESB, Gas, food bills going up in their own lives?

    The survey is a snapshot in time of peoples concerns. Gaza/Israel is a long way down the list. Nothing in the past week will ease the concerns people have in their own lives.

    A national poll is irrelevant. Like I have said, its easy for those on the outside with no responsibility to promote the boycott idea when they are shielded from the consequences.

    Its perfectly feasible that employees of the FAI are 100% sympathetic to the Palestinian cause but also expect their employer to act in their best interests.

    The FAI asked UEFA to ban Israel, was there a mass of support from the 50 odd other associations around Europe to follow through on this? No. Thats telling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,323 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    But if the shoe was on the other foot tens of thousands of Israeli people would be killed.

    The shoe was on the other foot, and the world acted and also said "Never Again". But certain people have chosen to forget that now.

    Do you think that people who took part in the resistance on behalf of the Jews 80 odd years ago looked back afterwards thought WTF about their actions?

    You're posting in a style that is giving credence to the rumours about the person from who you choose your Boards moniker.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,323 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    And do you think, given the cost of living is going up again given the current middle east issues, people will be more concerned with Palestine now, or the ESB, Gas, food bills going up in their own lives?

    There is no relationship between whether people stress about their own life situations or the plight of the Palestinians and that it is an either/or consideration for them.

    Most people can walk and chew gum at the same time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    In a survey, the biggest concerns people had was their own situation. Issues such as cost of living, housing, Health care, mass immigration. Gaza/Israel ranked very low on that list of concerns.

    Most people can also be sympathetic to the Palestinians plight but far more concerned about their own lives. Not a difficult concept to grasp really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,443 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    You should consider getting a new catchphrase.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,210 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Ye should consider answering questions.

    Let me make this clear - it is ONLY the pro Netanyahu/IDF folks that do not answer straight questions. Why is that?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Hopefully in the not too decent future the teams under UEFA will get to hold a vote to move Israel back to the confederation they should be playing in or let some other federation bare them for a bit.

    Until then we are stuck with them unfortunately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,323 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Very low on the list of concerns does not equal "does not care about".

    Glad to help.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    I NEVER said people "did not care about"

    I said its far down the list of priorities compared to issues which do impact people such as cost of living, mass immigration, housing and health care.

    But you already know, thanks for clarifying that you are wrong, very big of you, well done



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    IRL has to play the game or be sanctioned. That's not the issue though. If FIFA applied their own rules, Israeli would be banned. But they're not. IRL not okay g would be a massive OG

    Posts about IRL "strongly objecting" having no effect at all are wrong.

    Eurovision is a good example. Also, Spain in the last few days refusing US the use of its airfields for an illegal war - Macron came out and fully supported it. The UK too are refusing to engage (for now).
    The SA case of genocide before the ICJ - they went on a solo run but now tens of states have enjoined their case.

    All it takes is one country to make a stand against those who commit war crimes and genocide and those with similar views will join in.

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

    IRL are playing the home game. Let the Irish fans respectfully protest (other posts here have good ideas) and make their views clear. Let the players also do the same and hammer Israel on the field of play.

    The away game will not be as simple… The slightest sign of a protest and I'd wager you'd be spending a night (or more) in a cell. Though that's far better than the way Palestinian kids playing football are treated - the IDF just shoots them dead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,323 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I said its far down the list of priorities compared to issues which do impact people such as cost of living, mass immigration, housing and health care.

    Not sure why you're focusing on this, you say this like it is significant or that I said otherwise. Neither is the case. As I explained already, people can do more than one thing at once. It's not either/or.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 797 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    Do you watch the news?

    You still want to a football match to be a played?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,590 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Yes I do watch the news. And funnily enough since 2022 there is a war in Ukraine instigated by Russia and the ban on Russia in sport doesn't seem to have made any difference.

    I believe the game should be played because the FAI have obligations to their employees who need their wages being paid, which is heavily linked to the FAI having income. Income which comes from games being played. Its not rocket science.

    Yourself and a few others seem to be completely oblivious to the real world. So a question?

    If the game was boycotted, are you willing to forsake your own wages in solidarity with the FAI employees who face either not being paid, being made redundant, or being pushed into taking a pay cut?

    Brian Kerr was on TV recently criticising the FAI for making workers (football workers as he called him) redundant in late 2025, and now he wants the FAI to boycott 2 games and lose a significant chunk of income. What does Brian think would then happen? More job losses would be inevitable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    I am aware people can do more then one thing. But the over riding issues people here are concerned about are housing, cost of living, mass immigration and health care. Its clear. Other issues such as Gaza/Israel ranked very low on the list.

    So people are concerned about Israel/Gaza but they have far bigger concerns about other issues closer to home.

    The management board of the FAI can be appalled by the situation in Palestine, but also need to ensure they can pay their employees. Its not either/or. Its needs must. The FAIs single biggest obligation is to their employees. Not to Palestine or anything else. Palestine is not the FAIs problem.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    The FAI took a stand and got no support from the 50 odd other associations around UEFA.

    The away game will be in Hungary. Cannot see it happening in Israel

    Its a lot easier for a state to support the SA case then for essentially small entities such as football associations to do likewise as they are heavily dependent on games for income.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Yes I do watch the news. And funnily enough since 2022 there is a war in Ukraine instigated by Russia and the ban on Russia in sport doesn't seem to have made any difference.

    It makes a difference to Ukrainians.

    You just have to listen to their president talk how important it is that Russia are not legitimised by treating them like nothing else but a pariah state.

    Russia have always used sport as a propaganda tool against their down trodden populous. It's been going on since the Cold War and before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    I think the match should go ahead but I can understand people thinking it shouldn't its down to opinions. One thing is Isreal wouldn't be conducting this war without America funding it. The Americans are just as complicit as Isreal so we should be boycotting America aswell but that wont happen will it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,323 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I am aware people can do more then one thing. But the over riding issues people here are concerned about are housing, cost of living, mass immigration and health care. Its clear. Other issues such as Gaza/Israel ranked very low on the list.

    So people are concerned about Israel/Gaza but they have far bigger concerns about other issues closer to home.

    And to be clear, no one has suggested otherwise. I don't want people thinking that anyone suggested that people in Ireland should react to the situation in Palestine above what are serious active concerns people have to deal with.

    But that doesn't mean people are oblivious or should be oblivious to what is happening there. Which is what many people are saying. That is not a position I agree with. At all.

    The management board of the FAI can be appalled by the situation in Palestine, but also need to ensure they can pay their employees. Its not either/or. Its needs must. The FAIs single biggest obligation is to their employees. Not to Palestine or anything else. Palestine is not the FAIs problem.

    Agreed, the management of the FAI's problem is the management of the FAI. And they are challenged enough in that respect as we have seen in recent years.

    But South African apartheid wasn't the problem of the Dunnes workers in the late 80's, but they acted because they felt it was the right thing to do. And they were proven to be correct.

    If right was right, UEFA would act against Israel and any action or decision would be taken out of peoples hands. But them not acting as they should does not mean this conversation shouldn't happen. And again, if you read my early posts on this thread, I am not saying the FAI or the players "should" refuse to play. But I would applaud the FAI in particular if they did. I would be worried for a player with respect to their career if they refused to play. And that in a weird way is why they actually should.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,165 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    For me, this reminds me a bit of the Skort debate last year.

    People who had zero interest in Camogie, and had never done anything to help or support the game, weighing in and telling the game what they should do and judging the people who run it.

    This decision is for the FAI to make.

    If people want to make personal sacrifices to make a political statement thats entirely reasonable.

    But if your protest amounts to saying 'well I dont like this, but I think someone else should make the sacrifices and I'm not really making any sacrifices myself' - no, I don't really agree with that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    For me, this reminds me a bit of the Skort debate last year.

    People who had zero interest in Camogie, and had never done anything to help or support the game, weighing in and telling the game what they should do and judging the people who run it.

    This decision is for the FAI to make.

    What in the name of the God are you talking about? A vote was put to the General Assembly who overwhelming voted for the motion to boycott playing Israel.

    They literally are the game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,611 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    It's a possibility that we could be overtaken by events. There are already rumours that the FIFA World Cup is by no means 100% certain to go ahead this summer, given events in the Middle East. Very unclear where we might be in the autumn re. this fixture what with Israel going full on into warmongering / destructive mode.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭csirl


    Anyone who thinks the USA mainland will be an unsafe war zone by the summer is seriously deluded!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,611 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    No, not that the US itself will be unsafe, just that the general geopolitical situation may have changed and threats of boycotts etc. Not generally remembered that 65 nations completely boycotted the 1980 Olympics, it was a shadow of the event it was supposed to be.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Benedict XVI


    The only threat to the World Cup will be the actions of Mexican drug gangs.

    Who is going to boycott the world cup over a despotic Iranian regime being attacked?



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