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Ireland vs Israel - To play or not to play, that is the question Read OP for Mod Warning

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,784 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Two new wars - Lebanon being pummelled and tens of thousands already displaced north of the Litani.

    FIFA and UEFA have a lot to answer for by not banning Israel yet banning Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 795 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    Exactly

    Can you imagine if it was Ireland getting pummelled?

    Because someone else is been subjected to genocide we should play Israel because you know ‘it’s only football’



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    And when the FAI lose upwards of €10m in income (no ticket sales, loss of sponsorship, loss of TV rights money) and cannot pay their employees, what then? Not to mention future revenue being jeopardised if UEFA hand out further punishments.

    Have all those calling for a boycott surrendered their tablets phones laptops etc because they in all likelihood contain tachnology/apps developed in Israel? If not why not? Why the hypocrisy?

    Have all those calling for a boycott checked their own personal life for insurance providers to see what links they have to Israel, or stopped going to Tesco, supervalu etc because they stock food items which will have links to Israel?

    Its easy to shout from the sidelines when you are not the one responsible for an entire sporting organisations financial well being, and hundreds of employees getting paid. That is the reality.

    The reality is the FAI boycott the games, the losers are the FAI and their employees. There number 1 obligation is to their employees, not to anyone else.

    Russia have been banned for 4 years, from sports across the board.

    Did that make Putin rethink his strategy?

    Did that bring an end to hostilities on the Eastern Ukraine border?

    The FAI have no choice here realistically because playing matches generates income to pay people who have bills, rent, mortgages to pay, need to put food on the table etc.

    We saw a protest at Croke Park at the weekend over Allianz. Where was the outrage when AIG sponsored the Dublin teams?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,335 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    There isn't a single issue on the planet that can't be dismissed with some vague "whataboutery". I'm not going to waste my time responding in the way you think is needed. It isnt.

    Israel is a genocidal state. An Irish team has the opportunity to call significant attention to the plight of the people suffering at the hands of that state. That's the simple fact of the matter.

    All you are doing is attempting to ensure that that genocidal state does not have attention drawn to them in this way.

    Im quite sure you dont care about any of the things you demand others care about first before daring to hold Israel to account. Your post says more about you than it does about the issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,796 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Except it wouldn't "call significant attention to the plight of the people suffering at the hands of that state." It would just make Ireland look like a laughing stock.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,692 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    The Palestine people probably wouldn't even hear about it.

    They have more important things to worry about and so do Ireland.

    What has Russia being banned from football done to help Ukrainian people?

    Ireland doesn't play, no chance of topping the group, no revenue, potential job losses and further sanctions.

    What is laughable is people with the arrogance that Ireland are some leaders on the big stage who are going to save Palestine.

    This would do nothing for them like banning Russia did nothing for Ukraine.

    Like I said common sense to not self sabotage for something that will make no difference.

    If you want to explain how this will achieve something, not wishful maybes then we can look at if that can be looked at as common sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    What i believe, care about or dont care about isnt going to make a blind bit of difference to the power players in the world. In this case trump, Netanyahu etc.

    The reality is why, in two and a half years has no other football association or club taken a stand against Israel?

    Russia was banned, yet the war carries on.

    Whether a football match involving Ireland and Israel goes ahead, or not, is not going to change anything in Israel. It wont register on their radar at all. I think there is more then an element of over inflated sense of self importance going on in this country which is totally misplaced. We are a tiny dot, a spec, on the international landscape.

    The FAI have already pledged to do something to support a charity working in Palestine around the home game, that alone will do far more good then an Ultimately meaningless boycott of a game ever will. Because if the games are boycotted, the world will move on and nobody will really give a **** about it. And the FAI will be left to pick up the pieces of what will prove to have been a meaningless exercise and IMO nobody else will follow the FAIs lead.

    Given the below from January I believe, I think it's safe to say that employees of the FAI would have bigger concerns closer to home that are heavily dependent on getting paid and keeping their jobs.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,335 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Ireland called on UEFA to suspend Israel last year and within 48 hrs Lindsey Graham was posting in anger on Twitter about it and that tweet was viewed 3.7M times.

    If that isn't a sign of attention being called to the topic, I don't know what to tell you. You will never look a laughing stock when doing the right thing. Either as an individual, or as a country.

    You're posting a lot on this topic, which is the purpose of the thread obviously, but you're not bringing any factual commentary to the conversation, just blunt statements that are opinions rather than anything objective.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,335 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    What is laughable is people with the arrogance that Ireland are some leaders on the big stage who are going to save Palestine.

    No one, at any point, has suggested anything to this effect.

    What has Russia being banned from football done to help Ukrainian people?

    It has supported them in knowing that International institutions agree that Russia is acting as an aggressor. That isn't a big deal, but it helps public sentiment which helps influence politicians which helps influence support whether financial or militarily.

    If you want to explain how this will achieve something, not wishful maybes then we can look at if that can be looked at as common sense.

    Already explained.

    And if you are saying that this isn't enough, that it needs to be something definitively factual that will happen as an outcome then I would say that that is just an excuse to sit on your hands and do nothing, or worse, absolve Israel of their actions.

    Very little, if any, advocacy started with definitive lines from the initial action to the final outcome. But the initial step always has to happen for there to be any outcome.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,335 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Lol.

    From January. Like Israel hasn't been involved in initiating a war that has seen over ten countries impacted in the last week.

    It's also misleading to post that survey given the option of playing the game isn't represented on there one way or the other.

    Tell me, what do you think the results of a national poll would be on whether or not Ireland should play if it was a 3 option poll.

    1. Play the game
    2. Don't play the game
    3. Play the game but encourage mass protest (knowing the FAI would be fined)

    What percentage each option would receive?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,031 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Add a 4th option

    Play the game but encourage non-mass protest such as booing the anthem, Palestinian flags, Kneecap for a halftime show, show adds on our billboards for the red cross and other aid organisations in Gaza etc etc

    Remember this game is being broadcast worldwide, and especially to the numerous soccer fans in Israel.

    Not playing the game makes them a pariah and doesn't allow this level of protest



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,663 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    you're posting a lot on this topic, which is the purpose of the thread obviously, but you're not bringing any factual commentary to the conversation, just blunt statements that are opinions rather than anything objective.

    Could say the same about your posts. Did the fact that Lindsay Graham got 3.7m views on a tweet commenting on a comment re: Irelands attitude make any difference to Israels behaviour?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Benedict XVI


    You will never look a laughing stock when doing the right thing. Either as an individual, or as a country.

    Supporting Palestinians is not "the right thing".

    That will be revealed in time.

    A lot of Irish people still haven't figured that out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,215 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Because? That sounds like dehumanisation to me.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,335 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Change the word "Palestinians" to "the Jew's" and imagine for a second it is 1942 and tell us do you stand by that statement?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Benedict XVI


    Because when the dust settles on the current fighting and things get relatively quiet, some day in the future Palestinians will carry out another Oct 7th type attack and the whole cycle will start again.

    It's the Palestinians aim that Israel is destroyed, don't be fooled that it's anything else.

    It's off topic for this thread though.

    As it relates to the game

    The reason an Irish boycott of the game would not take hold is because the rest of the western world has a far less sympathetic view of the Palestinians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,335 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    You're missing the point. He commented as he did because he knew that Irelands behaviour may impact Israel if UEFA acted like they were asked to and that could force them to adjust their behaviour.

    Irelands attitude was a step towards that happening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,335 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    This is like people saying football only started in 1992 with the Premier league.

    You should educate yourself on everything that happened before Oct 7th (and since with respect to the West Bank) before making what could be seen as ignorant statements in the context of this discussion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Benedict XVI


    Why would I change the word Palestinians to Jews and pretend it's 1942 ?

    The Jews were not trying to eradicate any state in 1942



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,215 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Ah yes, another lad who thinks Israel-Palestinian conflict started on Oct 7th. Don't be fooled by the dehumanisation of muslims.

    You might want to open your mind to cause and effect. Here is a back-to-basics post I did earlier on Israel thread that might help you to start peeling the onion. The history is far more complex.

    Israel/Palestine Thread - Page 1945 — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,215 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    duplicate

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Benedict XVI


    The current issues started with the Balfour Declaration and Zionist moving into the area.

    But why start there, why not go back to when the Jews were driven from the land centuries earlier by Muslims.

    What is true today is that a majority of Palestinians would prefer a single Islamic state*, that would mean no Israel.

    *I'll find the source for that later



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,692 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    You keep talking about Russia being banned in relation to this topic.

    You have yet to explain what Russia being banned has done to help Ukrainian people.

    You are pushing for us to try get Israel banned which will do nothing to help Palestine people.

    You are aware it will damage Irish football in relation to our hopes of qualifying, we will lose income and face sanctions when we are broke, it will certainly lead to people losing there jobs.

    You have yet to give a reason what this self sabotage will do to help Palestine people.

    I am guessing you are not an Irish football fan or have the potential to lose your job if we don't play the game.

    Would you put your job on the line , I am sure not, but you would happily risk other people's jobs.

    Most Irish people are trying to get by in a cost of living crisis and that's more important than the good feel vibes of virtue signalling that will achieve nothing but negative impact on Irish people.

    If you can give a detailed explanation of what this will achieve, not ifs and maybes then we can have a conversation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,215 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    And would you agree that the vast majority of Israelis would prefer if Palestinians didn't exist and they could take their land?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,335 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    You are pushing for us to try get Israel banned which will do nothing to help Palestine people.

    Former Israeli President felt a football ban was likely to be the single most negatively impactful act as to how people within the country would react if it happened. That would force Israel to act less harmfully towards the Palestinians. Stop saying I haven't given any reason to propose a ban. This is a reason, it's a valid one, even if you disagree.

    I am guessing you are not an Irish football fan or have the potential to lose your job if we don't play the game.

    2 out of 3 players within the LOI feel the game shouldn't go ahead. Do you think they would be concerned about potential job impacts?

    Most Irish people are trying to get by in a cost of living crisis and that's more important than the good feel vibes of virtue signalling that will achieve nothing but negative impact on Irish people.

    Irish people were in a worse place in the late 80's when a ban on handling South African produce led the government to ban all South African products, which was a factor in the countries alienation and halting apartheid. You might have seen that dismissively as "feel good vibes of virtue signalling" but it was impactful. And so too has a lot of advocacy which you would describe in the same way, presumably because you can't comprehend acting on behalf of others.

    Stop acting me to give a detailed explanation that you will be satisfied with when you and the rest of them are providing less justification for your position than I am for mine. I don't care if we have a conversation or not, I am not here to do as you say. Take part, or don't, I won't care either way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,692 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    It's 24/7 news the last few years.

    But Ireland refusing to play a football match is going to be the catalyst for change.

    The level of self delusion is frightening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,692 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    I and others are listing guaranteed negative impacts to irish people.

    You are not providing any guaranteed positive impacts to irish or Palestine people.

    You keep talking about Russia being banned which done nothing for Ukrainian people.

    You are offering nothing but whataboutrty without even providing links.

    If you brought a proposal listing negative impacts and no guaranteed positive impacts, you would be laughed out the door.

    You are looking for Ireland to self sabotage itself without being able to explain the positive impact.

    Until you do then I will call it as nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,335 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Did Poland, Sweden and the Czech Republic suffer these negative impacts you're talking about? Have you evidence of that? Because if you don't, then you or others aren't listing "guaranteed negative impacts".

    I'm not repeating myself to you any more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,924 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Its pretty simple. Play the game

    If people dont want to attend, so be it.

    If certain players don't want to play, so be it.

    But please, people have the right to protest, but not get into other people face about it.

    Last week at the convention centre was a mess, i was walking by on way home and a protester jump in my way, ranting at it me and I had nothing to do with anything going on. Garda pulled him away.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 591 ✭✭✭pah


    Best thing we can do is play them, beat the cnuts, chant free Palestine all around the stadium, don't get involved in any altercations with Israeli fans.



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