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Switching electric/gas providers (see first post for links)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,106 ✭✭✭✭zell12




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,034 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    They did, it's a winter price freeze so it lasts until spring. They didn't mention which spring, whether celtic or meteorological admittedly - but regardless of which one you use winter has now passed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 147 ✭✭damestreet007


    im in cooling off period with energia. planning to make the switch to EI for slighly better rates. anyone know if I do need call energia to switch? they insist on calling them to cancel the contract.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,106 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Call them, they may match/better EI rate. You can only switch back to the previous supplier though, CRU rules.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33 SkryneRed


    Hi

    Contract with current provider is up end of this month and I have been looking around. Seems like there's no provider that provides fixed rate anymore?

    Thanks



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,034 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Looks that way alright, Bord Gais, Airtricity and Flogas (although not really) were the only ones to do that previously. You might have Flogas offering it again in July/August to cater for their current fixed rate plans but unlikely to happen before then



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,125 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    My new contract with flogas says it's fixed rate. Is it actually?

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,034 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    My last one said the same thing and they increased the charges 2 months into a 12 month offer. Their argument was that it was the CRU charges. When I complained to the CRU they found in favour of Flogas so obviously there's a deal between them of some kind



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,125 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭joe1303l


    CRU was just annoyed you disturbed their afternoon nap.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,010 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Did you switch to Energia from a different supplier? If so, if you cancel the switch, you will revert to your original supplier. You won't be able to switch to anyone else for 4 weeks owing to ESB Networks rules.

    If you just renewed a contract with Energia, the above isn't relevant because you didn't "switch".

    There's no "deal", its the law. Flogas didn't break the law therefore the CRU found in their favour. I don't know what specific plan you were on but all Flogas plans (variable and fixed) could be increased if the pass through charges increased owing to how they structured their T&Cs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,603 ✭✭✭Dr Robert


    Fixed contracts - prices can be changed during the contract.

    Fixed unit pricing - prices are actually fixed for the duration of the contract.

    There's not many doing fixed unit pricing afaik.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,010 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Fixed unit pricing - prices are actually fixed for the duration of the contract.

    Except in FloGas's case previously. The energy component of the unit rate was fixed for the duration of the contract but other charges were not.

    Their "fixed unit price" was not actually fixed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,835 ✭✭✭beachhead




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭wassie


    Flogas sold their plan as a fixed rate, but clearly prices could still rise within the bounds of the T&Cs.

    There may be an argument that this was " misleading practice" depending on the what was published at that time to entice the consumer to sign up, but that is a case for consumer law and not the energy regulator.

    If the sign-up page had a clear breakdown showing the energy rate as "fixed" and other charges as "variable" or "pass-through" before you accepted, I think any such case would be weakened considerably.

    Eitherway, in taking any action you would need to decide what your recourse would be to remedy the situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭CullyA


    Have a peep at below, I did go with Flogas but none of these deals.

    Went with dual fuel, joined early Feb D/P:27.58 N:13.46 12 month fixed !! I have an EV car.

    https://www.flogas.ie/price-plans/bwg-affinity-rate-res-offer/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,034 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    So the CRU saw a contract that said the price would be fixed for 18 months, saw a price increase and approved it. Surely that's against the law



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭wassie


    @Red Silurian - Actually reading the CRU Handbook there, the CRU may well have scope to address this. If you didnt already you should follow the process outlined in that.

    https://www.cru.ie/consumer-information/your-rights/energy/

    Your statutory rights under consumer law would also still apply.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,125 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    This is the exact wording of my flogas contract -

    12-month minimum term applies. Unit rate and standing charge are fixed for 12 months and are dependent on you

    agreeing to pay by Direct Debit and receiving a paperless bill. All standard variable rates are available at www.flogas.ie.

    VAT rates and other Government levies such as PSO and Carbon tax, apply and are variable

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,034 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    That's the exact process I followed. CRU ruling was in favour of Flogas.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,010 ✭✭✭bren2001


    The T&Cs of the FloGas deal was that the energy component was fixed but the charges were not. That was heavily flagged on here.

    Flogas did not break the law. You didn't read the T&Cs properly

    See here post #12187: "This is a fixed energy contract meaning that the energy component of the unit rate and standing charge are fixed for the duration of the contract, but regulated pass-through charges may change. If we need to adjust these rates because of regulated charge changes, we will write to you 30 days in advance of the change" - pretty cut and dry.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123315437/#Comment_123315437



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 948 ✭✭✭autumnalcore


    Can totally understand the argument that increase network charges should be passed through to the standing charge but how the fack can make any rational argument that increased network translates to an arbitrary 5% increase in unit price.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,010 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Because that's what their T&Cs said:

    See post #12187: "This is a fixed energy contract meaning that the energy component of the unit rate and standing charge are fixed for the duration of the contract, but regulated pass-through charges may change. If we need to adjust these rates because of regulated charge changes, we will write to you 30 days in advance of the change"

    The energy component only makes up part of the unit rate. It was a fixed energy contract and not a fixed unit contract. It actually said variable for the unit rate at the time of sign up.

    It was heavily flagged on here. The CRU ruled in Flogas's favour not because of some "deal" but because they didn't break the law.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭wassie


    I was always skeptical if Flogas's advertising of their fixed rate plan when they raised prices would stand up to scrutiny in terms of misleading practices. I would note also I dont recall the exact wording on the Flogas website at that time either - it would be useful to review in making the argument below.

    Regardless of the T&Cs, I would argue the vast majority of consumers are not aware of the difference between a fixed energy contract and a fixed unit contract. I was not until it was pointed out on this thead.

    The CRU Handbook states

    2.2.4 Suppliers must adopt a fair and transparent approach to the marketing and advertising of products and services. Suppliers must ensure that the information provided to customers either in writing or verbally through marketing and advertising is:
    a. easy to understand complete, accurate, transparent and not misleading in terms of
    information that is provided or omitted;

    b. specifies clearly the offer / product being marketed and the period it covers;
    c. communicated in plain and accessible language;
    d. relates to the products or services which are appropriate to the customer to whom it is
    directed;
    e. fair in both term of its content and format of presentation

    I would be making a argument that they failed (a) and (c) above by distinguishing between a "Fixed Energy" component" and a "Fixed Unit Rate", Flogas is attempting to use a technicality to bypass the common understanding of a "Fixed Price Plan."

    The use of the word "Fixed" implied that the price that would not change, when in fact it is only "part" fixed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,125 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    12-month minimum term applies. Unit rate and standing charge are fixed for 12 months

    It's pretty clear cut wording in that. I don't see anything about a "fixed energy component"

    Time is contagious, everybody's getting old.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 977 ✭✭✭antfin


    Plenty of people on this thread over the last two years questioned whether it was truly a fixed rate with the way Flogas worded the T&Cs. They always clearly said that the energy component of the unit was fixed and they may pass through regulatory aspects of the unit costs. Some argued that it was just unclear but I always felt that this clearly meant that they could change the unit rate but not in response to changing wholesale market movements. If you signed up based on just the description of it on the main page as a "fixed rate" then it's arguably unclear but people really should be reading the full T&Cs, especially when it's something like a fixed rate that's swaying your decision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭wassie


    This is the premise. Its a bit of a grey area an open to interpretation if this was in fact a misleading practice on the part of Flogas. It can be subjective. Reliance on the "fine print" often does not stand up to scrutiny, at least under Consumer Law.

    If I recall correctly (I could be wrong) wasnt this a point of difference from the previous fixed plan from Flogas?

    This is where a copy of the web page at that time showing the exact wording would be useful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭John arse


    Speaking of Flogas,they seem to have new 'Loyalty' plans with increased prices - so much for Hedging for price stability?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭wassie


    Yep. I wont be surprised if my posts age like milk.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭John arse


    I still don't understand that if they are locked in to long pricing contracts how they can increase prices(so soon)- that's what I've been reading for the last week anyway?🤔



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