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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,331 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    I wouldn't concentrate too much on leaks or fires. Anything could be labelled the same really. I was in Poland recently at an expo and it was wall to wall full of batteries. I spoke to numerous different manufacturers, agents, etc and all bar one had no interest in working in Ireland as the national grid is simply too small for them to invest in. These were ready made batteries coming in containers, all self contained with leak prevention and fire suppression built in. You bring them, drop them and cable up - job done. We do of course have middle men importing the units and getting their cut and scaling back drastically. The article around Starkraft and it's size of plant is tiny compared to what I was being told about. I'm talking battery parks the size of the solar fields we're building.

    One good thing from that article is the deployment of this system and others like it will "help to bring down the cost of electricity for everyone" despite not one renewable project to date doing anything of the sort.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭bored65


    Putting aside safety and highly questionable environmental credentials due to China being involved, what we have here is conversion of farm land to an industrial estate full of containers

    This is only the first but plenty of other projects in pipeline elsewhere in country

    Good spot on the “bringing down costs” arguments, so far in last decade the exact opposite has happened

    Another observation about that industrial facility is that it can supply the country with electricity {if could discharge fast enough, which it can’t} for … 1 minute

    Post edited by bored65 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,594 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It`s difficulty to know what the U.K. hopes to gain from that. Their own offshore wind generation costs, like everywhere else, saw huge increases in the last two years. Orsted walked away from a renewed contract for difference for Hornsea 4 of €98.04 per MWh because it was economically unviable, and the U.K. is a net importer of electricity. 2024 their net imports were 33 TWh, Our total consumption for the year.

    Unless they are going to be selling us electricity from old wind farms that have lower contract for difference prices - which to depend on for us would increasingly become over a few years an example of the law of diminishing returns. Or ulternatively with the U.K. no longer a member of the E.U., they have spotted a gap where they can buy French nuclear or Norwegian hydro at a certain price - even though Norway are contemplating pulling the plug on that arrangement similar to what they are doing with Denmark due to them being drained like a battery when the wind does not blow resulting in large increases in the cost of electricity for their own users - and then resell it to us at a higher price.

    If that is what the U.K. is planning for that interconnector then it is difficult to blame them. If you are a sucker then not getting an even break is nobody`s fault other than your own.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Lack of grid capacity already sees Scotland forgoing 37% of generating potential so wanting to offload that via HVDC from somewhere like Fort William might be their thinking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,594 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Perhaps, seeing as the U.K. has the same problem as Germany where wind generation is so far away from where their demand is, but it still is a crazy horse before the cart situation for the U.K. who are still handing out contracts for companies to generate in the North of Scotland when they do not have the grid to supply it where the demand is.

    These curtailment payments for 2025 have cost the U.K. consumer £1.5 billion added to their electricity bills for electricity that they neither need or require. If they are intending selling this generation to us, then it would need to be from older wind farms with a lower contract for difference price than those they now have, or they are just dumping it for whatever they can get. Something that we would be well advised to look at under "caveat emptor" because it would be a short term remedy with no guarantee that it would be there in the future if we needed it.

    Even then I don`t see how it would be going anywhere other than to Northern Ireland via the Moyle interconnector as they are paying these curtailments because their grid doesn`t appear to be able to transport it south to where the U.K./Republic interconnectors are.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Given how screwed up planning permission is in both Ireland and UK a HVDC line down the Irish sea might well be cheaper and quicker compared upgrading overground grid connections. Yes it is crazy but everything is already in the madhouse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,594 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    There are days that if you didn`t laugh at some of the nonsense these renewable companies come up with that is then repeated by the media and politicians as gospel, you would cry.

    How RTE can justify paying George Lee €200,000 a year will never cease to be a mystery.

    He is an economist with a first-class honors degree in economics from University College Dublin, and an MSc in economics from The London School of Economics. He has been their correspondent on the environment for over 6 years and he still does not know how the price renewable companies receive for their contribution to the electricity generation mix. Renewable companies get first shot at how much they can supply and are not required to give a price. They price is determined by the price of the most expensive fossil fuel in that mix and that is the price the renewable companies receive. Even if the percentage of the fossil fuel is minute. That will apply to anything this company provides from batteries, and will not reduce the price of electricity by a single cent. It`s called the Marginal Pricing Policy and you would expect an environmental correspondent to know that never mind an economist with a first - class honors degree, plus a MSc in economics.

    I actually laughed out loud at the current environmental Minister, Darragh O`Brien, on RTE news rabbiting on about clean energy with the Edenderry wood burning wood plant that burns 500,000 tons of wood a year with ships transporting wood from half way around the world to Foynes, and then by trucks 200Kms to Edenderry spewing smoke in the background.

    Even green advocacy groups like Ember and the Natural Resources Defense Council regard wood burning for energy generation as more harmful to the environment than burning coal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭bored65


    I don’t know how he is getting paid so much and having recently paid the rte license tax yet again I ain’t happy

    Tho there is supreme irony in such a highly paid propagandist using AI generated slop to push nonsense which will be gobbled up by AI datacenters

    The headline itself is incorrect as it ain’t the first in Ireland, ESB have a larger facility in 2024

    Another agricultural field converted to an industrial park for containers with potentially toxic Chinese chemicals waiting to leak



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,594 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I will say one thing for these renewables companies, they are not short on neck.

    Wind is intermittent. It is unreliable. It cannot be ramped up when required, so due to that and it`s capacity factor requires massive overbuild to supply peak demand. This proposed 37GW installed capacity offshore wind plan would deliver only 7.75GW of domestic demand and would cost €251 billion for just the wind farm costs alone at today`s prices, and that 7.75GW is only around half of what our projected demand for 2050 is. And that projection was before AI.

    Even if it was in any way financially viable, it`s generation based on a capacity factor for offshore wind of 42% which falls flat on it`s face when we have long extended periods when our demand is at its highest where wind, not just here but all over Europe, drops to generating 5% or even less. These wind companies are now trying to turn the huge overbuilds into a virtue by selling the idea that if we throw further undefined "loadsamoney" for green hydrogen, batteries etc. their way they can fix that gap in generation by storing electricity that this overbuild generates when we do not need it.

    Our current strike price for offshore electricity is just short of €100 per MWh. The current U.K. contract for difference price for green hydrogen is £241 per MWh (€276). For batteries to fill that gap, the ESB has been involved in battery storage for some time and I would tend to trust their figures more than some commercial enterprise attempting to sell their wares.

    The ESB have 5 battery storage facilities which could provide 2 hours of electricity to 200,000 homes from an investment of €300 million. According to the latest census there are 2,129,590 homes in Ireland. To provide all households with just 2 hours of electricity from batteries would require an investment of €3.13 billion. Households consume 28% of our generation of electricity so to provide all our requirements for just 2 hours would require an investment of €11.14 billion. For a day, €134 billion and the same each day for those long extended periods when wind is providing next to nothing. And that is just at the current consumption level. Even disregarding AI that cost per day would more than double by 2050.

    As I said, there is no shortage of neck when it comes to these renewable companies, but then if they can get us to buy into a totally financially unviable offshore hydrogen plan, it`s nobody`s fault other than our own that they are pushing the same financially unviable ideas on hydrogen and batteries to skim off as much as they can before the gravy train jumps the tracks and we go bankrupt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭bored65


    that’s nothing, you want to see “some neck”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/778b1b481471dbc9

    Directors took 60 million pounds from uk government for solar farms, money got drained away, including a 5 million yacht, company in bankruptcy

    Taxpayers are facing a potential multimillion-pound blow as a leading British solar energy developer risks the threat of administration.

    Hive Energy is preparing to appoint administrators just months after securing a £60m taxpayer-backed loan from HSBC to launch itself as a global operation.”



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭bored65


    Another case of RTE not so subtly pushing an agenda

    The headline does not match what the protest is about, it’s against construction of a battery industrial park on a rural location, and RTE spin it as a protest against solar farm (which is already built there)

    The protesters made that quite clear on the radio recently too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,594 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    When it comes to fire these batteries are a very dangerous commodity. Especially where there are large numbers of them in close proximity. If there is a fire due to them it`s not a case of the local fire brigade rocking up and putting it out with water. Pour water on them and they will explode. The only way to extinguish them is using dry powder which local fire brigades carry in limited amounts. The problem with dry powder is unlike water it`s discharge velocity is low, so fire fighters would have to get close to the fire and risk being caught in those batteries exploding.

    Fire Fighters use dry powder for other specific fires, but feed it into the fire hoses stream of water so avoiding the danger of getting to close to a fire. With battery fires that is not an option. No fire chief is going to send fire fighters anywhere close to a battery fire. Basically they will just let it burn itself out while trying to prevent it spreading.

    Where the logic is in having battery farms due to the cost to me at least makes no sense. To having them for solar with a capacity factor of 11% - which latest research here shows that falling to as little as 3% during Winter - makes even less sense, if that was even possible



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    New EirGrid analysis examines balance between electricity demand and supply in Ireland over 10 years

    PDF: All-Island Generation Capacity Statement 2026-2035


    Most of the news headlines revolve around power grid facing 'challenging situation' from 2026 to 2028.

    Several adequacy resources face uncertainty or variability during the 2026–2035 window:

    • Conventional generation: aging fleet, retirements, and dependency on future capacity market auctions to deliver new plant.
    • Variable renewable generation: wind and solar intermittency introduce reliability risks during low‑renewables periods.
    • Interconnection availability and imports may vary.
    • Flexibility and storage (battery, pumped storage) require accelerated deployment to mitigate these risks.

    These uncertainties collectively heighten the risk of insufficient firm capacity during stressed conditions meaning our energy bills are going to continue upwards.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    It is Irish state policy to ratchet up the cost of energy on it's citizens and residents using taxation and regulatory levers. Increasing numbers of people can't pay their bills. The Irish state presents no path forward that can lead to cheaper or stable energy prices, the cost of energy is embedded in everything we do. Pricing your customers out of the market by such means as the ratchet mechanism in the Paris agreement are doomed to failure.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭bloopy


    Cab you expand more on the ratchet agreement.

    I am not familiar with this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Back in 2015, Enda Kenny was Taoiseach (now on board Carbon Collect), and signed us up to the Paris Agreement, this agreement introduced a methodology whereby countries would individually determine how they would reduce emissions augmented by a periodic review when each country’s reduction plans would be steadily scaled up; the so-called ‘ratcheting’ mechanism. In our case we are under the EU and last year we were signed up for this:

    The EU and its Member States agreed that the energy sector should be predominantly free of fossil fuels well ahead of 2050 underlining the importance of aiming to achieve a fully or predominantly decarbonised global power system in the 2030s, leaving no room for new coal power source.


    There is a lot more in there, suffice to say none of it is economically achievable and most of it is technically dubious because it requires more energy than it generates. In short, it's a pathway to de-industrialization or what is euphemistically called de-growth.

    The initial rate of carbon tax was set at €15 per tonne, which was subsequently raised to €20 the following year. The Finance Act 2020 has legislated for annual increases to the carbon tax of approximately €7.50 up until 2029 and €6.50 in 2030, when the rate will reach €100 per tonne of CO2; source


    2030 is 4 years away. Overall Cost of Carbon Tax on Fuels In 2025 (Approximate)

    €6.70 on a 40kg bag of coal
    €1.40 cents on a bale of briquettes
    17 cents on a litre of diesel/petrol
    €140 on the average household gas bill
    €160 on 900 litres of heating oil
    

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭dmakc


    I read it as 400MW more required in the long run's secure scenario

    What conventional generation do they consider aging / retiring? Bare in mind this is an annual update and the original reference to aging / retiring was Aghada, Tarbert, Moneypoint (since extended to 2029) and Kilroot. All locations are in some way shape or form advancing with OCGT. Country is already on course to procure the 2030 target of 2GW new conventional generation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,594 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Difficult to know what that 400MW represents as the report is a bit sketchy regarding it. I`m not sure, but I presume it may have something to do with our present onshore installed wind capacity of 5GW.

    By 2035 20% of our present wind generation will have reach the end of its lifespan and require replacement. By 2040 that will have risen to 72% and by 2050 all of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭323


    Sure isn't that what UK is to do with their Eastern Green Link, 640km Subsea HVDC from Scotland to England.

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭bored65


    Watch solar and wind which we are told produces such a large part of our energy suddenly become much more expensive to harness in coming weeks

    profits must flow

    Post edited by bored65 on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Not heard of that project before but suspect same reasons apply. Pretty impressive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    February is usually whinge energys most profitable month. Hydro is typically ~4-6% generation. With the exception of Moyle in Scotland, the UK interconnectors have gas combined cycle power plants at the other side. Over lunch today I did hear the usual clueless comments from politicians about "renewable" energy on the RTEs politics show. They were rolling out their usual tropes about price gouging, more investment in renewables, and not backing out of the forthcoming carbon tax rises in April because this funds the winter fuel allowance and solar panel grants, not realising the irony of being "concerned"about people on low incomes who can't pay their high energy bills, especially those on prepay schemes who must chose between energy and food while transferring money from them to subsidise middle class electricity consumption installing solar panels & battery storage, heat pumps and zappy chargers.

    There is no such thing as a free lunch, unreliable generation is only possible because of generous subsidy for the above and reliable gas supply to overcome the frequent failures, If those things paid for themselves there would be no need for subsidies.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,034 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Just to be clear, those forms of electricity won't become "more expensive" to produce. Our bizzare system means we pay every supplier the same price per kWh regardless of what it costs them to produce. It means that if the kWh cost of wind is 10c, Solar costs 16c and oil costs €3.50 we pay the wind and solar producers €3.50, even though oil is providing less than 3% of our fuel mix

    This crazy system is the reason we paid so much for our electricity when Russia invaded Ukraine but instead of changing it our braindead government (which at the time included the greens) kept the status quo

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭bored65


    Oh I know, was being sarcastic

    I understand that the unpredictable and random nature of renewable generation requires backup via gas as the other form of backup such as batteries and hydro are several orders of magnitude more expensive and have their own issues

    And of course we have completely ruled out nuclear and the single interconnector of 700mw to the continent is over time with delay after delay and waay over budget now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,034 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The interconnector is meant to allow us to turn off production at Moneypoint. Whenever it comes along the benefits will be there from a climate perspective, but the costs will still be the same. Even if we went nuclear in the morning we'd probably still have that 0.0001% of oil or gas on our network that requires the maximum price to be paid

    Unless you went 100% nuclear, which under our silly system it would actually make sense



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭ginger22


    Will you give over with the "climate" nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,266 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    All green initiatives should be ignored, boycotted and protested until the global leaders start looking after the planet ...Russia, America and the middle East alone have done more damage then recycling has fixed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,034 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The climate isn't nonsense, far from it in fact

    Yes, let's make the planet less livable as a way of protesting against the planet being made less livable. You mean by doing nothing and hoping it fixes the problem?

    If you want to hit these global leaders hard you gotta do it where it hurts them the most, that's in their bank balance sheets. In many cases that simply means not buying oil



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭ginger22




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,034 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian




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