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DART+ (DART Expansion)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    The arrangement for the 701 was somewhat bizzare. After terminating at the Nutley Lane Vincents stop, it went Nutley Lane→Stillorgan Road (past the UCD flyover)→Mount Merrion Avenue→Rock Road, before starting at the Vincents bus stop on the Rock road.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Exactly. Like they planned the route from ma map rather than a trial bus. They forgot that via the tunnel takes 20 mins from the toll bridge to the airport.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    “Some fairly minor civils works would be required there to allow coaches to move in off the motorway (lay by style) ” !!


    Over my dead body will there ever be a lay-by on the M50! It is a full junction or nothing, and they may as well give in and have it be general traffic instead of public transport only where a dozen or so buses a day would use it. Flyover junctions cost a fortune, they should never be public transport only.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,259 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    I'm used to seeing actual bus stops on a maotrorway here, even though most of them are no longer in use, so I guess a lay-by set back from the road with a physical barrier (like the existing lay-bys on our motorway network) is as good as "off line" to me. Each to their own though.

    Back to actual DART….

    What I'd really like to see some day is that busier stations get improved comfort. Our local station here in Brandenburg looks much like any DART station, with a couple of bus stop style shelters for the rain but it's not a very hospitable place to be in inclement weather or even when the sun is beating down in Summer. The next town along is bigger and is served by more trains like the regional expresses that pass us by. That town has a near full length continuous shelter over one of the platforms (the up platform towards Berlin). It's a substantial structure but makes waiting for a train there a much more pleasant experience.

    I wonder would there be scope at least at branch or busier interchange stations to examine the possibility of such full length platform roofs. I'm thinking the up platforms at Maynooth, Clonsilla, Broombridge, Glasnevin (planned anyway I think?) would really benefit from them. On DART+ SW I think Kylemore should get one if Lucan Luas goes past there as looks likely. Anywhere else that could benefit from upgrading from the bus stop style shelters to something better?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 196 ✭✭The Mathematician


    Do you mean the down platform at Broombridge? Far more people get on there heading towards Maynooth and Sligo (mostly connecting from the Luas). Typically people going towards town would use the Luas.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,259 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    I didn't really think about that to be honest. I was thinking post Finglas Luas, expecting a lot of people to change to DART there to continue towards the city on heavy rail but you're probably right. Broombridge might be a place where both sides could be deserving of a full length platform roof.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    If IE can't be bothered putting a roof on Tara I very much doubt they'll do anything for Broombridge



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,259 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    I hope Metro is going to raise the bar in what passengers expect from their stations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Rulmeq


    They have been designed to be the cheapest we can get away with (most likely as a reaction to the runaway costs of the children's hospital), so I doubt that.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    While true, they will basic compared to some large fancy Metros like Moscow or the lovely artwork in Stockholm, I do think they will be quiet impressive compared to most of the heavy rail stations here in Ireland and what people are use to here.

    I've looked at the designs and IMO they look modern and clean and really nice looking. They use lots of natural light, lots of timber effect to blend with surroundings, glass, etc.

    The above ground stations are fully covered and look nice. Of course given the high frequency and the fact they aren't very deep, they are more optimised for fast through flow over people spending much time in them.

    They put the **** Irish Rail modern stations to absolute shame IMO. You know the ones that IR build on the Western lines looking like their are a prison, with ugly grey steel fencing everywhere, grey brutalist looking buildings, etc. Very ugly IMO, specially given the grey weather we tend to have here.

    Note I'm of course talking about modern stations, there are of course some lovely historic train stations, with lovely red brick, etc. The CACR stations also look to be a bit better, but still lacking enough shelter.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Thunder87


    IR don't even bother with shelter on those brand new stations either, just a couple of those miserable little bus shelter type things. Given our climate and supposed wealth we really should be seeing full platform shelter rolled out at all stations where it's practical, basic canopy structures surely wouldn't break the bank yet would make waiting for trains so much more tolerable in the winter months



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,273 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Shall we discuss the elephant in the room?


    Nobody wants to build a facility like those suggested as the homeless will move in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Pretty sure homeless would be removed from platforms fairly quickly. It’s a massive safety risk.
    There was a homeless encampment next to the railway in Fairview though, that was there a while before action was taken to dismantle it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,177 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    It's down to anti social behaviour. They don't want areas hidden away on platforms that can be loitered in. Understandable. Might change if we have a transport police.

    The station designs if anything seem to be getting worse. The new platforms at Heuston for DART+ look dreadful on the planning docs.

    There are two ways of looking at it. 1. There is no point making any effort because it will just be abused/vandalised. 2. On the other hand the way the stations are so low brow looking nowadays it probably attracts feral behaviour like flies on sh!t.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,259 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    I think people in Ireland often overstate the vandalism problem. Graffiti for example is a much bigger problem here in Germany than in Ireland. My local station here is covered in graffiti.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,259 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    I don't see a load of homeless people setting up camp on the platform at Maynooth or Clonsilla. Come on now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 891 ✭✭✭EarWig


    There is a permanent group of drug addicts at the end of the Luas Line under Connolly Station.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    That section has been closed off by hoarding since last Summer. It's improved the situation a good bit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    There are some homeless that use the shelters at night, but are mostly single occupants, and they set up late, and are gone again early morning. As I mentioned earlier, there was a camp set up by the depot in Fairview on Irish Rail land, but it was cleared last year, and repairs made to the fences where they gained entry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,259 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Homeless people (God love them) tend to congregate in the city centres. We don't see much of it in suburbia, probably because homeless people often beg or need access to drug services or hostels that they might use at night. These things are all much more difficult to access out in the suburbs. Also, homeless people don't necessarily want to be hassled by Irish Rail security. It's much easier to go under a bridge that "nobody" is responsible for than trying to set up camp on a busy railway platform with Irish rail security passing by regularly. I just don't buy that homelessness is a reason not to erect full length platform shelters, just like those planned for Metro actually. Why should a metro level DART station be much less hospitable in the lashing rain than a surface or elevated Metro station?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,177 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Connolly and Tara Street need full or partial rebuilds. Connolly is looking pretty shabby now but Tara Street is a disgrace of a station.

    I think CIE have taken possession of the site beside the station where Johnny Ronan was planning a hotel.

    In the metrolink docs it says IR have committed to upgrading the station.

    They need to present a serious plan now to radically upgrade Tara Street.

    Connolly is nowhere near as urgent but needs attention and improvements.

    The only coherent and pleasant station in the city center is Pearse Street which looks well after it's roof was repaired.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,177 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    There is a difference though in the city center. Underground metro stations will close overnight with no way in/out whereas someone can always get in to a surface DART station one way or another.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The issue I’d have is the materials and design choices they use to achieve this.

    For IR it seems to all be ugly grey metal fencing and grey stone and concrete. By comparison Metrolink looks like they will use lots of glass instead of fencing/stone/concrete and includes some warmer timber effect to blend with the surroundings. Even with the glass they can still close the stations, but it looks a lot better, more open, lighter and visible.

    Down in Cork, it looks like some of the newer stations at least use some red brick in the design so it looks a bit better.

    IMO IR have gotten their “security” approach all wrong, I think turning stations into ugly, dark, unattractive places to be with unusual hidden corners tends to make people feel less safe and tends to lead to unwanted people hanging around.

    It is funny how Broombridge has gone from the worst stations in the country to a somewhat pleasant station now (though lacking shelter), since they removed l some of the fencing and opened it up with the Luas and buses next door and more of an urban park feel!

    I completely understand needing to secure depots and rail lines, but IR has left this fetish for fencing impact their stations too, which needs a more human approach and a better understanding of the psychology of feeling safe and comfortable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    20260228_142603(1).jpg

    I saw this site notice posted up referring to a future ESB planning application to facilitate the DART+ West works. Not sure if this has been posted before.

    Unfortunately the maps were very poor quality on the site notice and couldn't make out the detail.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Antisocial behaviour just pushed up from Broombridge to Pelletstown.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Thunder87


    That's definitely one of the worst examples of IR's architectural vandalism, Ashtown/Pelletstown is a nice tastefully developed area with a lovely linear park along the canal, then they went and stuck this hideous shite in the middle of it

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/5tR8kVYCUywXxK6L6



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Ireland Desperately tries to design out vandalism/ASB without considering how anti social their designs are, because we refuse to adequately resource maintenance of facilities so they don't end up looking like garbage

    Boards is in danger of closing very soon, if it's yer thing, go here (use your boards.ie email!)

    👇️ 👇️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    At least the lifts have never broken down in Pelletstown.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Maybe true in the past when maintenance was something that just never happened, but Luas stops do not have that feel at all.

    Every DART station built to date was built in a climate of not having any money to spend. The planned stations are a lot better. Leaving aside the CACR designs, which are very good, but not DART stations; Cabra is a good step in the right direction - it’s an inviting space (as much as a station in a cutting can be). The Spencer Dock terminus station is also very nice.

    What’s missing from DART stations in particular is any sense of them being landmarks. Every other country with a similar network has distinctive signage that can be seen from a distance to tell people that this is a station. DART stations, on the other hand seem to be designed as if IÉ is ashamed of them being there. Compare these two suburban stations, Killester in Dublin and Bernstorffvej in Copenhagen:

    image.png


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    I was broadening scope to things like parks/playgrounds etc rather than explicitly transport, but agreed Luas stops generally don't have this problem.

    Boards is in danger of closing very soon, if it's yer thing, go here (use your boards.ie email!)

    👇️ 👇️



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