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Orange is the new Burke

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The real cause of the delay is the schools legal team

    No it isn't.

    An appeal is not automatic. Burke has to apply for it, it's his appeal. His appeal that he immediately injuncts. It is him and him alone that is preventing the route of natural justice.

    It's the very definition of the clean hands doctrine.

    And, the perjury issue on their side is obviously why they were stuck, and why the appeal is taken so long - but that is not Enochs fault, and he will exploit it as much as he legally can.

    There is no perjury issue on their side, there is a perjury allegation yet again by Burke. Not his first.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,337 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    What do you think of the panel set-up to hear his unfair dismissal claim? You haven't mentioned it or the allegations of bias he keeps making against the members of the, by now, various panels set up with volunteer members to give him a fair hearing.

    How does he think he will ever be able to get his claim heard there with his appeals against members of the panels plural because he alleges any of them holding an opinion on topical social matters which is contrary to any opinions held by him AND HIS FAMILY automatically disbars them from being able to examine his unfair dismissal claim in a fair and unbiased manner as required by law?

    The two members of the panel who resigned are from the latest panel and not from the original panel. The question now is; will he ever be prepared to allow a panel to meet to hear the unfair dismissal claim he brought before the actual body under which the panel hearing route is laid down for appellants alleging false or unfair dismissal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 976 ✭✭✭gk5000


    I don't know the specifics but in general:

    He can legally appeal or contest the composition of the panel, though his family have no legal say except throu him.

    The school/Dept can oppose him on this, and then the Judge/courts decide, including if his objections are valid.

    The school's legal team can/will use any (legal) mechanism at their disposal to advance their case - and would be failing in their duty to their client otherwise. It's an adverserial system with the Judge in the middle, so don't blame Enoch for this.

    He's under no obligation, legal or otherwise to speed up the process. He's hardly going to just walk the plank. And its not his problem if the panel members are volunteer or part time.

    The school/Dept want him fully off the books so it's up to them, and any delay is on them. I believe they or their legal team are compromised, hense have not progressed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 976 ✭✭✭gk5000


    I'm just trying to explain how the system works, or as the case may be does not and why.

    All the wishful thinking is pointless and don't shoot the messager.

    Why has it taken so long to fully fire him - off the books, and who is responsible?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,273 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I'm just trying to explain how the system works

    Nah, not really

    You made an allegation of perjury against the school's legal team. That's a serious allegation, and you have provided no basis whatsoever for it

    He is fired. The reason he's still getting paid is because he continually prevents his appeal from progressing. The sole fault for that lies with Mr Enoch Burke

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,100 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    EB has applied for an appeal. He believed the apeal panel.were biased against him. He sought an injunction against them on that basis. His belief must have some basis as two of the appeal panel resigned. Its not EB fault that the school failed to setbup an unbiased appeal panel.

    The chairperson has probably stayed on for to technically disolve the present panel, they will not be on the next panel.

    You do not automatically get an injunction, there has to be a fairly substantial basis for you to look for for one. His basis for that looks to have been fairly correct.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,337 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Eh no, the delay, as you put it, is not down to the Dept. As you have put it [He's under no obligation, legal or otherwise to speed up the process. He's hardly going to just walk the plank. And its not his problem if the panel members are volunteer or part time].

    It is he who is responsible for the delay. He, and his family, are engaged in two court settings with the intent of preventing the firing process from being concluded legally. There's nowt else left at this stage but to conclude he's tilting at windmills.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 976 ✭✭✭gk5000


    No, Enoch made the perjury allegation, and the news reports etc. suggest to me he is likely correct, as previously outlined.

    Yep, Enoch is responsible for firing himself and to stop paying himself.

    Yep, makes perfect sense...if thats what you want to believe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    EB has applied for an appeal. He believed the apeal panel.were biased against him. He sought an injunction against them on that basis. His belief must have some basis as two of the appeal panel resigned. Its not EB fault that the school failed to setbup an unbiased appeal panel.

    Tangible evidence the Appeals Panel decided they were biased?

    Please be specific?

    You do not automatically get an injunction, there has to be a fairly substantial basis for you to look for for one.

    He has been award temporary injunctions which do not have to have substantial basis, only that they may do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    No, Enoch made the perjury allegation, and the news reports etc. suggest to me he is likely correct, as previously outlined.

    His allegation is baseless.

    He wants the High Court to pass on a discussion he thinks the DAP had to the DPP so they will initiative a criminal prosecution. i.e. have the Panel arrested.

    Anyone who suggests he is correct is as delusional as the Burkes.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 976 ✭✭✭gk5000


    That's a bit harsh....or deflection.

    What about those you think Enoch is responsible for firing himself?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 277 ✭✭goldsparkle


    I don't understand how appeals happen. After EB was dismissed from his work, would it have been him that sought an appeal and not the school? So that was a process that he himself wanted. Why has he blocked it for years preventing it from going ahead? I know he developed issues against the members on the panel but they can't all have problems. It was him that sought an appeal and then he goes against it.

    Is he not better off letter the appeal happen and if it's not to his likely take it higher maybe to the workplace commissions or whatever it is.

    This whole entire appeals is so long. Is there any way a court can decide on the matter?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭Westernview


    You're over thinking and over analysing it. He doesn't want a resolution either way. He wants the saga and media interest to continue indefinitely. He wants to get out of prison so he can be rearrested and then released again and rearrested. The perjury nonsense is all part of obstruction and delay. He has learned that the more disruptive and uncooperative he is the more he frustrates the courts and cause delays. Then he can complain about the delays he is causing. He is like a drug addict that cant think beyond the next hit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 277 ✭✭goldsparkle


    I don't get it. If you are called for jury duty and you don't engage with the letter, there are penalties involved.

    I really think the government should pass emergency legislation for people who waste the courts time and resources for petty nonsense like the Burkes are rattling about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Its almost a unique situation. Its rare for someone in jail to obstruct a process that could potentially lead to their release so the panels usually see the process through. If someone drops out and is replaced we probably wouldn't even hear about it. Some members in this case may be dropping out because of the media spotlight and the anxiety of having the Burkes criticise or confront them in public. Can hardly blame them. Who wants all that hassle for a voluntary role.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 976 ✭✭✭gk5000



    The sequence goes something like
    Disciplinary Action (fired from school) - > This DAP Appeal (fired by Dept) - > WRC - > Labour Court - > High Court - >…

    Think of appeals like bullets so you don't want to waste them, and also they tend to get harder for him as they move on.
    Also, he's still paid before this appeal.

    So yes he would have requested the DAP appeal but it is up to them for it to happen.
    He injuncted it because it was unfairly staffed and he appears to have won that, as they resigned.
    It's not in his interest to allow it unless he thinks its at least neutral.

    The Courts are not on his side (even though they are supposedly impartial) so there is no way they will allow him to delay without very legitimate cause.

    Enoch is NOT a master court magician who can somehow delay the Courts.
    He has NO super powers.

    His families antics just garner enough attention to ensure the Judge dots his i's and gives him the fair trial he should have by right. This is unfortunatly true and is to the shame of the courts, though I don't expect many to understand this at present.

    If the court were to decide right now they would have to decide in Enoch's favour - as it is not his fault about the panels. He just pointed it out.

    As it stands the Court appears to be allowing the school/legal team a third chance to create a panel - but the court could equally say - tough - you've had 2 chances so are blocking Enoch's rights so he wins by default. Unlikely but possible.

    Again, the school's legal team have royally fcuked up and all delays are on them, unless you believe in "Super Enoch" who can "paralyze and mesmerize Judges of the High Court with his steely stare", even over a video link from jail.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,337 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Would a rational person not fixated on one religious concept above all other concepts have chosen to escalate a disagreement over a school initiative concerning one or more pupils with his employer into a full blown row with the judiciary, with his family joining him every now and again in support mode at the school gates and then have his family engage in barracking several judges from the depths of court rooms in the 4 courts accusing the judges of unconstitutional behaviour letting everyone know the Burke family answer only to a "higher authority"?

    Would any sensible person choose to walk on the side of the street the Burkes were on or cross the road to avoid tangling with the Matriarch of the family?

    Your dissembling on the nature of the Burke activities is curious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    If the court were to decide right now they would have to decide in Enoch's favour

    The court have decided. The injunction has been struck out.

    There is a matter of costs for last weeks debacle. Which I understand will take place today, as well as dealing with his Mother and Sister, who hopefully will be on their way to Limerick prison by the close of business.

    He injuncted it because it was unfairly staffed and he appears to have won that

    Again. His injunction was struck out, he won nothing.

    As for being unfairly staffed, his claim is every member of the ASTI is an "activist for transgenderism".

    But again that injunction was struck out.

    the school's legal team have royally fcuked upand all delays are on them

    Absolute nonsense.

    The "schools legal team" don't pick the composition of the appeals panel.

    The repeated claim that the school are the ones delaying the process is extremely dishonest.

    As it stands the Court appears to be allowing the school/legal team a third chance to create a panel - but the court could equally say - tough - you've had 2 chances so are blocking Enoch's rights so he wins by default. Unlikely but possible.

    Fabricated nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Why has he blocked it for years preventing it from going ahead?

    Attention, Martyrdom, money. Keep Mummy Happy!

    The Appeals Process doesn't have a legislative standing so that is why the HC are entertaining injunctions.

    Once it gets past this phase, the process cannot be readily injuncted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,337 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    I'm puzzled at your [the courts are not on his side - even though they are supposedly impartial] bit. You do understand that being impartial means not taking sides?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.thejournal.ie/martina-burke-ammi-burke-contempt-of-court-6966889-Feb2026/

    Usual Burkary. Calling the Judge a liar, claiming he is in cahoots with the schools barristers, claims the Judge is involved in an elaborate cover up. etc, etc.

    “You know that judge, but it saves you a lot of trouble if you cover it up,” she said.

    At various points, other members of the Burke family who were present in court supported Martina’s submissions by saying “yes” and “amen”, or by repeating points she made.

    Cult 101.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 277 ✭✭goldsparkle


    So they turned up in court today where the judge asked them to explain why do they think she should not be jailed for contempt of court where mother and sister Burke banged the same old drum degraded the judge and the courts once more. And the judge will decide on the matter next week. Why could he not decide on the matter today?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Why did he give them the opportunity to explain themselves?

    God knows.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 277 ✭✭goldsparkle


    I don't know. Surely he knew what way it was going to go. Then walk away and decide on the matter next week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Mr Cregan will have another 15 mins of fame next week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,574 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Or the judiciary are being extra prudent to avoid any chance of an appeal being successful...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭adaminho


    Because normally when someone is facing contempt of court they are given an opportunity to come and purge their contempt. Any normal person would show up, apologise and take their lumps, the Burkes just double down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    To me their behaviour reads more like contempt in the face of the court.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,187 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Is EB pushing for an appeal panel that is totally biased in his own favour or what?

    How silly of me to ask, of course he isn't….



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 976 ✭✭✭gk5000


    Of course he is.
    And the school already tried that in their favour and failed twice and they had to resign (and delayed the process).

    It's an adverserial system - that's what sides do. But the Judge in the middle shall decide.



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