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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    So what you’re telling us is that we would have conceded more scores if we didn’t defend as well as we did or if we were playing against better opposition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,628 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I don't entirely disagree, he could certainly grow as a leader on the field, but Casey needs to show that game managing ability at club level before he be entrusted to do so for Ireland. JGP benefited massively from Sexton, he really didn't take on that role until after 23, and you can see an example of how he floundered with it in the 2nd La Rochelle final, where he ignored Bryne and we ended up fluffing the lines.

    I think Doak has been thrust into that role for Ulster, and worked through difficulties to become the player he is now. Feel we ought to be looking to utilise that, and give him an opportunity to build on it in green. Probably shouldn't be asking a player, like Casey, to learn a new skill set in the hardest of environments.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭ironingbored


    Watching Against the Head and Jackman did a piece on Ireland's work at the breakdown. There were some outstanding examples of insanely accurate clean outs that prevented turnovers.

    JvdF on Pollock when JGP made the break.

    Ryan on Genge.

    Ringrose, Lowe, Furlong, Loughman other examples of note.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,553 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Jaysus, that YouTube of the match is a tough listen with Mark Robson on the comms



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,998 ✭✭✭almostover


    Yes and he could well be picked to bench vs. Wales. I'm just saying that I think it would be better to go with Sam, especially in a 5/3 bench. It's a good opportunity to give him time to steer the ship home v Wales to rebuild his confidence.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,070 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    I am not advocating one player over another but surely they should develop at their club in the higher end games in the URC and European games. Like JGP did at Leinster. Like Murray did at Munster. They need to be ready for Ireland by what they learn and experience under the direction of their own coaches, not finishing their apprenticeship in Green. They might then get even better if they are frequent starters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    I can see how they could go with Sam starting against Wales.

    It would be harsh on Crowley but you tell him he's definitely getting the Scotland game.

    What other upcoming game can they get Sam back in the team? Wales are the weakest we'll face for a while.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,803 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    I heard on a Podcast earlier that Ireland were 30% quicker ball to first receiver when JGP replaced Casey v Italy. If speed is Casey big thing then he needs to be less ponderous. I've always thought him quick but he looked slow v Italy and the stats back that up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 182 ✭✭Jelly Welly


    SP needs to rebuild at Leinster first and be clear first choice 10 there (which he is not)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    I don't think AF agrees with you. Crowley and Prendergast are still options 1 and 2 for Ireland. Harry Byrne sent back to Leinster probably signals he won't be involved in this tournament.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭50HX




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,628 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,475 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    I have ears and enjoy listening to him. Each to their own.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,475 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    No chance they go back to Prendergast for the Welsh game. Crowley should keep the jersey until there is a compelling case for Prendergast to win it back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 816 ✭✭✭padraig.od


    Robbo is great! Do you have link for the game?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 360 ✭✭big-al


    yeah, he’s a decent commentator.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,060 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Robson’s bizarre similes grate on me a bit but I love his passion for the game. Give me that over Hugh Cahill or Conor McNamara any day



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,327 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Bundee didn’t impress much this season so I can’t see him coming in. But maybe he plays for Connacht this weekend and then it can be assessed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    The issue might not be speed of pass but the way Casey delays until he has the 10 in his sights.

    JGP during phase play gives players no choice or time to make a decision he just hits whoever is out there, Casey tends to always look for the 10.

    It’s very obvious to watch at times and that increase in recycle and distribution is not defendable in phase play as long as the attacking team don’t make handling errors



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,308 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Baloucoune wouldn’t have got a shot had Hansen and Keenan not been injured. Yes he was injured last season but there was also a period around 2021-23 when he was unplayable but hardly got a look in because he didn’t “fit the system”. He’s 28 now which for a winger is on the older side so his best years are likely behind him. McCloskey made his debut a decade ago. He’s now 33 years of age and only now is he getting a proper go. Now you could say “oh but we’ve had Aki and Henshaw”, but I’d argue that what Stu is delivering now is better than anything Henshaw has delivered in a long long time. Imagine the impact he could have made if he was given a go sooner. Same goes for Nick Timoney.

    I just worry that with a lot of the “next crop”, we’ll find ourselves in a similar situation, with them only getting a shot in the twilight of their career when it’s forced upon the coach, and we find ourselves realising that they’re actually good players who can make an impact at test level and wondering what if that had gotten a chance sooner



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,963 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Baloucoune wouldn’t have got a shot had Hansen and Keenan not been injured.

    Even if we grant you this, after Hansen and Keenan's injuries, TOB was in possession of the jersey. He was dropped for Baloucoune.

    Similar thing happened on the other wing without injuries; Lowe was dropped for Stockdale. If you're going to mention it only happening because of injuries on one wing, it seems to me you have to acknowledge it happening on the other without.

    Same thing with McCloskey in the Autumn; Aki was available, but McCloskley was selected as our defacto starter and has since kept the jersey.

    (You could also add in stuff likely Timoney getting more time from the bench, and unlucky not to get a start, Izuchukwu starting vs Italy, and Edogbo on the bench too).

    I was as critical as anyone with regards his conservatism last season (and regularly getting my Ireland fan credentials questioned on here). But there's plenty of evidence that he's being much more progressive this season, even if it is coming when guys like Baloucoune and McCloskey are later into their career.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭lalababa


    I hope Farell puts out his strongest team against wales. They were very close in one game (scotland?) and actually à bit unlucky against the french.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,327 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Of course he will. It's the six nations not a July tour game. He dropped lads against France and Italy in order to get a response from them, which he did with aplomb.

    No reason now not to continue that progress with them.

    Hopefully we see some freshness on the bench. id love see edogbo get another run out against a flagging Welsh defense. That's certainly possible if he reverts to 6/2 with Casey and frawley on the bench



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    That would be a very strange way of doing business

    Crowley plays well v England

    Sorry next day out your dropped

    Prendergast prob would play well v Wales

    Sorry nxt day out your dropped again for Crowely

    Farrell surely needs to reward fella in the jersey

    I could see SP on the bench but I don't think he could start



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,327 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Completely agree that Jack should start the next game, but we have been vocal in the need to go into the next RWC with two valid options in the 10 shirt.

    Sam right now is obviously not in the right head space due to all that ignorant online abuse, but I can certainly see him get some minutes from the bench before the end of the competition. No better man than farrell to build him back up.

    After that out will be interesting to see how the minutes are shared between July and November, and if byrne or frawley appear as valid options.

    If byrne and frawley don't appear as valid options for the reserve jersey, given the current situation, than that is completely on them. They may never get a better chance to stake a claim.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    Ah yeah, it's not the most likely scenario but don't think it's outside the realms of possibility.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,956 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    How about this? Start both JC and Harry Byrne with SP on the bench!

    Bearing in mind Wales are not as good as Eng or Italy, they dont have a FT defence coach. (Tandy combining roles assisted by Dan Lydiate) and R-Z will also be masquerading as FB.

    JC; Baloucoune, Osborne, McCloskey, O'Brien; Byrne, JGP.

    Bench: Tom Stewart, Milne, Clarkson, Edogbo, Bryn Ward*, Doak*, SP, Zac Ward*.

    -Ringrose looked wrecked coming off (54min) and I think he played the game on a leg and a half-

    -Osborne went to 13 (63min) when he came back on after YC (53min)-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,342 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Nah, I cannot see this happening and wouldn't see a rationale for doing it.

    Just leave Crowley at 10 through the end of the tournament. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Osborne in the centre, but don't see them bringing Harry Byrne in.

    I don't think Zac Ward is even in the wider squad, so don't see any chance of him making the bench v Wales absent some more injuries.

    I think the bench you've got there is too callow and inexperienced for them to take the risk (even if it is just Wales). If we got a red card or a few injuries, we've zero experience virtually in all of Milne, Edogbo, Bryn Ward, Doak & Zac Ward, and not a huge amount of experience in Stewart or Clarkson either.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,956 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    How about this? Start both JC and SP with HB on the bench!

    Bearing in mind Wales are not as good as Eng or Italy……

    JC; Baloucoune, Osborne, McCloskey, O'Brien; SP, JGP.

    Bench: Tom Stewart, Milne, Clarkson, Edogbo, Bryn Ward*, Doak*, HB, Zac Ward* (he can still get called up) or Frawley.

    v

    Bench: Kelleher, TOT, Bealham, Beirne, Timoney, Casey, Frawley, Stockdale.

    (I'd be keen to get SP back involved. Confidence boost etc)

    you now what Im getting at! Ireland do not need the latter to get over the line v Wales.



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