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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Not a spell exactly, but a Sam size hole in the defense, and if you can't admit that, then better to not let the world know.

    I'm busy today, but I hope to get back to each of you at a later date. All I'll say is, you guys are incredible. One good performance, and it's like the previous two seasons didn't matter. Goldfish.

    Lions hangover? Sorry but there was an autumn series and a 6N before the Lions, so that argument holds no water. Now that the win has happened and we can all come down off the high, you have to admit England were shocking. Like in the second half just one England player threw three passes to the touch line. Three!!!

    Post edited by shootermacg on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,966 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Be interesting to see what happens at 7 for the Wales game. Expect it'll be VdF starting, but there's a case for Timoney to start, or for Bryn Ward on the bench.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    England were horrendous yes , helped by ourselves, and we were a different breed of a team to France & Italy and that’s got to be recognised. 2 more games to dictate the 6N but now a reasonably strong chance of coming 2nd which none of us gave a second hope to. Farrell deserves huge credit . Players turned up



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭john9876


    Does his contract with IRFU expire next year?

    Presumably it will be extended!

    What age could he continue to play to where he would still be the best option? 36/37/38?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,628 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Casey offers nothing outside of a quick pass. He's zero threat with the ball, not even a speed bump in defense. He doesn't organize an attack the way JGP does. Doak should be getting minutes simply because he can offer something beyond a quick pass. We've already had one Stringer, don't need a worse version of him.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    I suspect he will go to Japan or France for end of career dollars but who knows , he looks to have plenty of longevity but we know that can turn quite rapidly at that stage



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,978 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Can we look at what I said. He is doing a lot of the stuff a 10 is expected to do whilst playing at 9.

    I think he is a great scrum half and deserves a chance. What I'm saying is that doing stuff not expected of a 9 might be what's holding him back from becoming part of the Irish setup.

    The coach might be the reason why he's doing this stuff, I don't know if that is or isn't the case but I believe if he played as a more traditional scrum half role that he'd stand a better chance of getting his opportunity.

    For me he should have been given an opportunity two years ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Casey gives the ten an excellent chance to shine… or not shine.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,328 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    he did get an opportunity 2 years ago. he played 2 games for emerging ireland when he was 21 years old.

    "a more traditional scrum half" is a bit of a weird statement. Doak is probably closer to Conor Murray than any of our current options, and he uses his physicality in a similar way.

    Hes also easily the closest we have to the traditional french scrum half type.

    He really is only out of cooneys shadow for the last season and a half, so hes still very much at the beginning of his career. he will get loads more opportunities, the kid has only turned 24 a coupe of months ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭antfin


    His contract is finished in June. Hard to know will he get the money that he wants in Ireland. I don't know how negotiations are dealt with these days, but you would suspect that with Leinster picking up 70% on his salary on his next contract they won't be too keen to commit to 2 years when his final year would see him playing for Ireland for most of the season and at that age he could pick up a career ending injury or have a big dip in form.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,564 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Players released back to provinces Michael Milne, Tom Stewart, Darragh Murray, Edwin Edogbo, Cormac Izuchukwu, Cian Prendergast, Bryn WardNathan Doak, Harry Byrne, Tom Farrell, Jude Postlethwaite



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,628 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    He's also the starting SH for the best attacking Province, and a key part of what makes them so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    One thing that needs saying is, Richie Murphy of a hell of a coach. I agree Doak should be given a shot, he's a much different player now than he was then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    I dunno if I'd share your view on the runners and riders necessarily.

    I don't think Casey is the "best number 2 scrum half by a margin" in all honesty. He absolutely should be, he's older and more experienced, but I wouldn't dismiss Doak as not ever becoming a world class 9 when he's just 24, because I think it's less likely Casey ever gets to that level.

    I don't share your optimism on Gunne unfortunately either. Just haven't seen enough from him, even with a decent amount of game time this year. He's not seizing his opportunities at all, and thought he was close to one of the worst players on the field in the recent Ireland A game v England.

    JGP's performance at the weekend though does really underline the importance of getting his central contract wrapped to the end of the RWC. Just pay the man and give him what he wants; I don't think there is any position where the step down is so stark.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Yeah, people have kind of forgotten the pre-tournament clamour to give some gametime to Bryn & Zac Ward, or JJ Kenny because guys like Timoney & Baloucoune have gotten opportunities and done really well with them, but I'd still love to see Bryn Ward feature against the Welsh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 360 ✭✭big-al


    surprised no Stockdale.


    lowe must have a serious enough injury



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Wonder does that mean there is no chance of these guys being involved against Wales, or is it a case of trying to get some match sharpness into some of them?

    At a minimum, I was hopeful Edogbo would be involved v Wales.

    Considering the amount of Leinster players in camp, they're not getting a whole lot of help there on the player release front for a tricky game v Cardiff on Friday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭TRC10


    They must not have been doing the business in training eh



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,628 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Going to be disappointed if none of those lads get gametime in the last two matches.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Maybe,

    or Ringrose a doubt with Osborne to 13 and Stockdale to 15 or 23

    Disappointed that Doak gets released.

    Sam stays in camp, Harry goes home



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Best believe that after Saturday Andy is DOUBLING DOWN on his favourites



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Absent injuries I think you should brace yourself for some disappointment then.

    I think it's hugely unlikely all of Stewart, Milne, Murray, Byrne, Ward, Farrell & Postlethwaite are involved.

    Chance obviously for guys who seem closer to the 23 like Edogbo, Prendergast, Izuchukwu to feature, but realistically probably at most one of these three guys will feature, and Cian Prendergast seems the front runner (even if that's not necessarily how I'd rank them).



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,328 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Give it a break, you made a fool of yourself last week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    Ireland A game was a terrible shambles , the format and pre training needs to be reworked as a lot of individually talented players were collectively terrible. I think Gunne has had a good season and has developed well but hasn’t had a lot of game time. Big difference being a regular starter like Casey & Doak. We have been on the opposite end of this debate for a while now so let’s just leave it as time will disclose all. For now we need to back Casey and build his confidence in Green. He’s not perfect but he’s our 2nd best and Farrell isn’t changing that view for now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 887 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    Post edited by Lost Ormond on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,628 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    which is such a mistake imo if true. You have positivity in the camp, a game coming up where the likelyhood is we get a win, but will still face a motivated team. This is the match to give guys a a proper go in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    I wouldn't be certain that Farrell is all-in on Casey. While he likes him obviously as a player and would have had input into his selection as captain last summer etc, the point regularly pointed out about how he hasn't gotten a lot of big minutes against Tier 1 teams points to Farrell not necessarily being fully sold on him.

    On Gunne - I really liked him as an U20, and he's had some really good days for Leinster - he was brilliant in the away win in Durban last season - but I've also seen too many days where he looks like a rabbit in the headlights too and his fundamentals (especially his kicking) lets him down. I'm not writing him off at all - he's 22 years old - but I think he's some way away from being in the Ireland reckoning.

    There are lots of rumours about Luke McGrath moving on this summer though, so will be interesting to see what we'd do in that scenario.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,999 ✭✭✭almostover


    I would tend to agree. Wales will be very committed in 2 weeks time and will be no pushovers. They made us look very average last year too and only for Ringrose's red card being a 20mins one we were in trouble.

    Not sure what the prognosis is with Lowe. Looked like a hamstring which may end his tournament. TOB and Rob on the wing is really exciting, gives us proper pace in the outside channels. JGP and Crowley then to control the game.

    I'd like to see Sam bench vs. Wales. If we're ahead with 20mins to go, Wales won't have the bench to overturn a deficit. That's an ideal opportunity for Sam to take the reins and guide the ship home. Could do his confidence the world of good. As it would for Jack should he help put us in the lead after 60mins. I wouldn't go throwing the baby out with the bath water with Sam, he may even play for Leinster this weekend coming. That plus a good spell vs. Wales could boost him back up. Same vs. Scotland, another solid bench appearance could do him the world of good. Then we can argue over who should start again in the Autumn.

    Edit: I see Byrne has been released to Leinster, not Sam. Sam will definitely be benching so vs. Wales which IMO is the correct call.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,999 ✭✭✭almostover


    Would love to see Timoney start with VdF on the bench, probably the only change I'd make to the starting forwards from the last game.

    Ward's time will come, that Nation's cup thing is on this summer and it's the perfect opportunity for the next generation like Ward to get game time in the national team.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 360 ✭✭big-al


    Gunne can’t get ahead of an out of form and aging Luke McGrath.

    That is on him and not anyone else. He was shockingly poor in the ‘A’ international and Devine (who hasn’t had a load of gametime) was a marked improvement.


    I think it’s a stretch to say Gunne is the best scrumhalf behind JGP.



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