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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,864 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    If we're going to go through the championship playing JGP in every game we'll reap what we sow in terms of exposure for backups (Casey or otherwise). Italy and Wales are the games to do this in my opinion. The win the other day takes the pressure off a bit, I'd hope AF makes some changes regardless.

    Beirne at 6 was a great success and Ryan/MacCarthy gave a reminder of what they're capable of in terms of workrate, Ringrose gave a mostly brilliant defensive performance… but I'd still be looking to get game-time into some of Edogbo/Cian P/Timoney/Milne/Tom Stewart/Izzy/Stockdale/Tom Farrell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,978 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I find it funny that you want to drop JGP to give younger lads more minutes but you want Tom Farrell to be given a go at 32 years of age.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,864 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Postlethwaite should have been in there too, I was looking at the original squad list. I don't really care who is added as long as they get minutes. Ward is another I left out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    France started with much lighter locks against us than Italy. Was that an accident or did they know they had enough up front with those guys and could concentrate on increasing mobility against us? I don’t know what to do about the scrum but I feel it’s our biggest problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 360 ✭✭big-al


    he was won MOTM 3 of 4 times for Ulster this season.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,070 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    I would be pretty certain that Big Al has watched every game Doak has played for Ulster.( He has probably watched every game Nathan;s father, Neil Doak played for Ulster too. He also was a competent goal kicker who also played 9 and 10 when needed, He was a member of the Irish rugby squads in 2002 6 Nations and 2003 RWC. I don't think he actually played. He was also an Irish international cricketer who was a fellow member at Lisburn C.C. with me.)

    Nathan isn't a 10 playing 9. It's very simple. He is a 9 who can goal kick to a high standard. In a break glass in an emergency situation, he can put in a shift at 10 at which he is more than competent. Do you think players like Morgan Parra, (9), Ellisalde,(9), Ramos (15) and Greg Laidlaw (9) are / were all 10s masquerading as other positions? They all could and did play 10 when needed. Michael Kiernan was a goal kicker for Ireland for years who played centre. As was his uncle Tom, a full back , for years. Michael wasn't a 10 pretending to be a 12. Ireland ..and others… have a fixation that only the 10 is the one who kicks at goal. Daft thinking,

    Post edited by jacothelad on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Not sure how this is the case. I said before the game that Farrell was looking for a big performance from his old favourites. And he got it from them. It was a brilliant performance. Best we’ve played since 2023. (England were abysmal but I’d rather not focus on that). So he’s here until the World Cup now, that’s pretty much guaranteed after the England win. They’ve set the standard for themselves now. We know how well they can play.

    However, I do now worry that Farrell will see no reason to give some other guys a go against Wales and Scotland, seen as his modus operandi has always been “why change a winning team?”. And the win doesn’t change the fact that a lot of this team is ageing and have been playing badly for a long time. A lot of those guys played well on Saturday. But we need to be developing options for the probability that some of them do have a drop in form, which will happen.

    We saw World Class displays from McCloskey and Baloucoune. But would these guys be there if it weren’t for injuries/suspensions? Probably not….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,553 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I'm not ruling him out at all, all I'm saying is, if Farrell has Casey (as he has at the moment) as the back up to JGP then he needs to give him more game time there. I'd be saying the same if Doak was his preferred choice and only getting 7 or 8 minute here and there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    England were set up to defend a Sam defence. Standing off, sending a guy in to the passing channels. The large sample set of almost all the previous games have involved Sam. The simple fact is, if you stand off Sam, he has nothing for a defense.

    Crowley would eat that defense up all day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    Exactly. Casey is the 2nd scrum half and needs to get more game time. We can’t afford to rotate to the extent that we’re diluting beyond the 2nd choice and we need as much game time for JGP / Crowley together to bind them together ahead of Aus 27. JGP & Sam will get lots of time together as will Jack & Casey. Interesting to see DuPont starting v Italy which shows the French mentality to 6N



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭longjohn200


    Not saying Crowley wasn't good on Saturday but in terms of eating up the English defence - that's a bit of a stretch. What Crowley was good at, was playing simple and facilitating the likes of SMC outside him. He added calmness at no 10 which gave confidence through out the team. It was an efficient performance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,370 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    One of the great myths of Irish rugby is that Sam Prendergast doesn't threaten the line. There are obvious holes in his game, but we've seen plenty trys scored, in green and blue, where Prendergast brings the ball right up to the defence before passing at the last moment to put a teammate through a gap.



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 9,571 ✭✭✭fitz


    I'd argue it's actually a strength of his. He tends to position himself very close to the line, so I think it seems like he's not carrying to the line, but it's just cause of where he's received the ball. Not always the case, but it's the only thing I can think contributed to that perception of him not attacking the line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,103 ✭✭✭DBK1


    After your comment re TOB two weeks ago and how that actually turned out over the weekend I’m sure you’ll forgive everyone reading your current comments for treating them for what they are, complete nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 887 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    https://youtube.com/shorts/FrbuRTmVddI

    He does stuff like this all the time for Leinster, like every game. Carrying the ball up to the line, drawing in a defender and passing late is what creates all the space outside him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    So England set their defence up for Prendergast even though they knew Crowley was playing 10?

    You don't think Borthwick would have changed their defensive system after finding out Crowley was out half?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    We saw World Class displays from McCloskey and Baloucoune. But would these guys be there if it weren’t for injuries/suspensions? Probably not….

    We had everyone fit and available in November and we still picked McCloskey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 887 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    So not only does Sam cast some kind of spell on his own teammates when playing that makes them defend badly (according to some esteemed posters on this forum), his now extending his magical powers to the opposition when he's not even in the 23. The obsession with him rages on, even when he isn't playing.

    Absolutely remarkable stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Let's also not forget this brilliant insight too from last week too:

    Amongst the highlight was the conclusion where Farrell is described as "a good unit coach, who got promoted beyond his talent".

    Any interest in revisiting any of that analysis I wonder?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,103 ✭✭✭DBK1


    🤣🤣 I suppose they should be admired for even turning up on here after being so consistently proven wrong on so many occasions!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,966 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Did you not also post the following last week?

    Some of you are going to have a real tough time explaining things away if it doesn't go well without Sam in the team. A very tough time indeed.

    Care to offer an update on that particular insight?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,842 ✭✭✭standardg60


    What's also remarkable is that he's managed to cast a spell on some here from outside the 23 not two days after a great win.

    Straight back here calling for him to be reinstated against Wales despite admitting that his confidence is absolutely shot.

    'The break will have done him good'. What absolute horsesh1t. He needs to, and will, be left out of the squad until he regains some form and confidence for his club.

    Anyone who proclaims otherwise is not an objective Ireland supporter imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Really interesting comment from Andy Farrell over the weekend around JGP and the value of him to Ireland's attack in the following piece:

    “Here's an interesting stat for you as far as all the GPS scores and stuff like that. I try not to get too carried away with it, but when he came on the field last week (against Italy), our intensity grew by 30 per cent."The ball was quicker by 30 per cent and that's what he does...

    Beyond the fact it is obviously an exceptional strength of JGP's game, I think it's a weakness in Casey's game that he needs to address.

    Casey's quality of pass is exceptional - the best IMO of any 9 in Ireland, and he does bring good leadership and intensity to the side (recognised by him captaining the side during the summer tour last year etc), but I do think he's a bit one-dimensional as a 9 all the same. His athleticism is poor, so he's just not a viable running threat to the extent JGP is at all. His kicking game is okay - he's pretty good at clearing lines defensively IMO and can hoist a good Garryowen from a box kick etc, but still lacks variety and creativity I think in attack.

    I wouldn't mind seeing what Doak could bring from the bench against Wales.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭jem


    I would leave the 9& 10 the same for the rest of the 6 nations , in fact I would probably have the wingers that finished the England game the same as well and get them used to playing together.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,691 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Depends on the Wales result and the off chance we can still catch France.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,842 ✭✭✭standardg60


    We're in the exact same position at 9 now as we were with Sexton at 10. All well and good for Johnny to say we should have been developing cover for him, but like JGP he was head and shoulders above everyone else, and you can't just 'develop' god given talent and big game mentality which they both had/have.

    Personally I think Casey has already reached his zenith as a player and doubt it's simply a matter of more game time. I'd like to see Doak given a go now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    I dunno if it's that stark - Casey is a lot further along and much more experienced potentially heading into RWC 27 than the likes of Crowley would have been in RWC23 (i.e Casey will be 28 by then, and probably sitting on north of 150 Munster caps etc), but would agree the picture behind isn't as rosy as it appeared not that long ago.

    Ben Murphy's performances have slipped this year, and Matthew Devine hasn't yet lived up to the potential he showed at U20s. The same is true of Fintan Gunne who is still no where close to Irish reckoning.

    Nathan Doak is the guy who's form has been good this season, and he has probably done enough at this point to warrant a closer look.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 853 ✭✭✭ShineyShiney


    Me too, perhaps play around with the bench options though. Just to help create a little more depth. I would be prioritising development of the 13 options if possible.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    JGP is 33

    Casey is 26

    Doak, Murphy & Devine 24

    Gunne 22

    Personal preference is for Casey to get as much game time as possible as to me he is the best number 2 scrum half by a margin although there are huge gaps when compared to JGP

    Doak is the third in my opinion and his position in the extended squad is warranted but I don’t feel he will ever be a world class 9 which is what we need for post JGP era

    Murphy is fast in space , his frame lacks the requisite upper body strength and his defence is very questionable. Devine is aggressive and has energy , I’m not an enthusiast

    I’m backing Gunne in the medium term , he needs a lot more game time at club level but has the physique and skill set to be exceptional in my view

    What’s important is to let time flow and get them all game time as that’s the magic potion and thankfully JGP is in all likelihood in Ireland until the end of next year .



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