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John Collison on why Ireland can't do infrastructure

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Agreed about making new buildings aesthetically pleasing in areas like this, its like the new SSG shopping centre proposal. A total disgrace...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,304 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    “We have massive talent in this country, great entrepreneurs, but we’re all being crippled by nobody working in the civil service, people not showing up for work. It’s a load of b*****ks,” Mr O’Brien said.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,858 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    Civil service reform is never on any parties programme for government. Why not?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,633 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The issues affecting delivery of large projects hardly started with remote working.

    Talks about concern re: climate change fine, then wants more energy intensive data centres built.
    What?
    Maybe there was more nuance in the speech but in the article it comes across as a contradictory rant.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,758 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think Denis O'Brien is the last person I would listen to regarding Irish politics and the performance of the Public Service.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,858 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,758 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    He happens to be the last person I would listen to, but I want make a list as I do not want to be Slapped.

    Maybe John Collison on some subjects.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭techman1


    Catherine Connolly, she knows so much about how to deliver infrastructure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    You owe me a new keyboard mine was damaged by coffee exploding out of my mouth as I read this 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,858 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    By objecting to everything?

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/presidential-election/how-catherine-connolly-objected-to-major-galway-projects-including-bypass-new-school-campus-private-hospital-and-new-gaa-ground/a1843906977.html



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,277 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    why not? he knows how to get things done; it's just about who you know to pay to get them done…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭techman1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,858 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    under existing regulations, a transport project, such as a new road or public transport initiative, may require up to 30 licences, consents and approvals.

    In the case of water projects, 21 such processes have been identified, while in the case of electricity infrastructure, 20 regulatory requirements were identified.

    Minister Chambers will tell Cabinet colleagues these pre-planning processes are taking up to a year for roads, while for wastewater projects they can take between 1-4 years, and in the development of the national electricity network can take between 1-3 years.

    At the bottom of this article about pyrite. Another government screw up that has cost us €Billions.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/defective-blocks-scheme-dublin-wexford-6965413-Feb2026/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,043 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Michael Lowry. A democratically elected representative of the denizens of North Tipp since 1987.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    100% this. He's a billionaire that most likely doesn't even see how that class of people are part of the larger problem with society. Avoid paying as much taxes as possible, same with big tech (I know it's part of the draw to Ireland but I believe we've moved beyond the need to give massive FDI incentives like the 90's).

    The reality is, key infrastructure projects, whether that's public transport, motorways, hospitals or anything else essential should be handled by the state. Tendering these out to private, for-profit companies causes runaway costs and when combined with how slow the civil service moves, long delivery times.

    I would be of the view that the civil service could do with modernisation and processes that speed things up but we also need to invest in bodies that can undertake large scale projects. These are key for a functioning country and while they'd be built in a non-profit manner, the benefits to the society as a whole are the measure of success, not the annual revenue of some contracting conglomerate.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,277 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    it's not even that he's a billionaire per se, more so the events that led to the setup of the moriarty tribunal, the findings of which were categorical that o'brien received substantial assistance from michael lowry in obtaining the mobile licence for digifone, which (IIRC) was the launchpad for him to significant riches.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes, exactly. Along with whatever shady dealings surrounding SiteServ and Irish Water. Again, this comes back to a wealthy class greasing palms, gaining political control and basically leeching off the rest of us.

    I know this sounds like your run of the mill lefty stuff but as time goes on and we see rising costs, poor infrastructure investment and a housing crisis that is made worse by many new builds under the ownership of REITs then the logical conclusion it is people like Denis O'Brien and the politicians who rub shoulders with them are the problem. I think the Epstein files just solidifies the idea that the wealthy feel like they can do whatever they want, they're beyond the law (regardless of whether they're involved in Epstein or not, it just highlights a trait in the cohort) and as a direct result we continue to get asset stripped.

    This is what I believe to be a large factor in poor infrastructure planning and execution in Ireland, that and a bloated and slow moving civil service.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    My main grip with the public service would be them not arresting and locking up corrupt gangsters who bribed politicians to win a mobile phone network licence, a licence to print money.


    I’d much appreciate any journalist asking Mr O’Brien about that.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,758 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mod: Can we keep politics out of this.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The topic is based on an article about Ireland's infrastructure shortcomings, this is an inherently political discussion. The decisions that shape our infrastructure planning come from government.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,222 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Poor Denis, someone must have told him that the rental income from some buildings he rents out didn't match his expectations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,568 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    You only have to drive through Thurles to see how effective he's been at delivering infrastructure for his constituents



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭McGrath5


    Wait until Denis hears that I'm working from home tomorrow 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,304 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    This is a problem. He is elected to be a national parliamentarian to legislate nationally, not a glorified councillor to rain goodies on his geographic area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,568 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    I don't think you quite understood the comment, Thurles is a nightmare of a place to drive through, 40 years of Lowry hasn't exactly delivered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭kyote00


    lowry does do a nice extension and boundary walls…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,691 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    We have made the B1M Youtube channel



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,277 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    it's ostensibly about why the fuel protests happened, but this is an interesting article about ireland; she puts together an argument that (among other things) ireland has poor infrastructure and weak institutions because we didn't actually have to build them up to achieve our wealth. we just dropped our tax rate and the money started rolling in. or in short, we have a **** government because the government can afford to be ****.

    https://www.butthistime.com/p/mind-the-gap



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    It's a bit simplistic, as it ignores just how poor this country was up to 1970s, and the author is dead set on presenting a “colonialism” narrative without properly subjecting it to any kind of challenge. “Rich for 30 years” is not the same as “Comfortably off for 150 years”. This is a country that really didn’t start to function properly until the 1980s, and had nothing like an income until 1995 or so. Even the Soviet Bloc countries fared better than we did, as quite a lot of infrastructure was built regardless of cost, because it was paid for in a notional money that you couldn’t use to buy anything with.

    We started in 1922 as rich and developed as Denmark. However, a civil war, a religious pogrom (no, they didn’t all leave because of the weather) and some downright stupid economic decisions like starting a trade war with the only nation we sold anything to meant that by the 1930s we were way behind, just in time for war. A bizarre fixation with self-sufficiency in a country that had only a narrow range of raw materials meant we never really recovered. We did actually get money from the Marshall Plan, but 90% of it was in loans, the repayment of which accounted for about 60% of our national debt as late as 1970. We were, by any measure, the poorest country in Western Europe for most of the 20th century, so while the likes of Finland or Austria were slowly building out their infrastructure, we were living hand to mouth, patching up what we had, and hoping that if enough people left the country we wouldn’t have to build anything new. The only policy success we have from those days was the decision to remove financial barriers to education: of the limited options available to them, the governments of the 1950s and 1960s did choose well there.

    Of the metrics used for infrastructure, a graph without showing sources is just a pretty picture. It’s not even stated what metrics inform the scores, let alone the scores are calculated: this isn’t economic analysis, it’s cosplay. Picking through the text, it seems to be based on health and… railways? Oh, okay then. I’ll grant her health - we are screwed due to a multitude of causes, plus a long-term health planning model that relied on attrition through emigration and is now struggling badly to keep up with a growing population. But: it’s extremely odd to choose railways and electrified railways rather than, say, kilometres of motorway as a transport metric - one makes Ireland look very underdeveloped, the other makes it look overdeveloped. Now, I love rail, but an island with a dispersed population pattern will never have the kind of rail network that a similar continental European country would, and that has nothing to do with investment. Most tellingly, if you include Health as Infrastructure (which I agree is valid), then why is there no mention of Education in relation to this magical “score”? even more strangely when Ireland is in the leading pack in the OECD in both educational investment and educational attainment. Private education is mentioned as if it’s a common thing, but Ireland actually has the lowest enrolment in private schools in Europe (about 1% for both primary and secondary), and that figure is falling.

    It’s not true that Ireland doesn’t need infrastructure to generate wealth: our economy relies on services and specialist manufacturing (medical devices and pharmaceuticals). That kind of economy requires education, telecommunications, transport and healthcare infrastructure. The author also seems to have forgotten that companies have to employ a lot of Irish people before they can say they’re based here for tax purposes, and that means there is an incentive for the government to invest in infrastructure: even if you buy the “corporate colonialism” narrative, then the country’s ability to provide healthy, educated workers at a low wage who can move easily from place to place become essential to the “exploitation” that is apparently going on.

    And in the whole article, the word “property” isn’t mentioned once. If you’re looking for a source of why a sandwich costs €12 and people have to spend so long in traffic…



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,277 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Cheers, it does seem like it's an article that has grown legs and revisions, sounds like it might have started out as her quickly putting thoughts on paper and then when it started to get around, she had to address criticisms and feedback. Will be curious to see if she addresses the shortcomings people have identified in further revisions.



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