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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,732 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Balacoune and TOB showing ups on each others wings made our wide game lethal, these two are quite a find in combination. Crowley and JGP played of each other very nicely though Crowley needs a lot of work on his kicking, both form hand and the tee. A few of his attacking kicks would have been very expensive against a team in better shape to take advantage of them. His temperament is ideal though. The veterans had a game for the record books.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Careful you don't do yourself an injury moving those goalposts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,721 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The Wales game should be used to try out a couple of other players. Tom Stewart, Edogbo, Izzy and Doak should be given decent game time, if only from the bench.

    If Ringrose is out, I'd love to see Postlethwaite get a run at 13 v Wales. It is the one position where there is no line of succession. Tom Farrell is a good player but unlikely to go to the WC so little to be gained by giving him that game. I think Osborne's skills are better used at 12 plus it won't be possible to convert him into an international 13 while he is at the same club as Ringrose, Osborne won't get the chance to learn the position at club level.



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 9,571 ✭✭✭fitz


    I think our meters after contact yesterday had the square root of f*ck all to do with who was at 10, and everything to do with repeat effort and urgency from the pack. We had more intensity from the forwards yesterday than we've seen since 2023 or the France opener in 2024's 6N, imo.

    Not knocking Crowley...he did exactly what he needed to yesterday, and I think we should be sticking with him as first choice for the rest of the tournament. But JGP was the one managing the game for the most part, and the forwards finally put in the intensity they're capable of for 80 minutes for the first time in 2 years. Crowley got a way better platform than Prendergast did in the first two games, and he didn't magic that up himself.

    It seems like both he and Sam take a lot on themselves in terms of responsibility for how the game is going, regardless of whether the problems are beyond their control. Which is both admirable and problematic. I think this is part of the reason both have had issues with confidence. The more pressure they put on themselves to change a game, or to solve issues they can't really influence, the less confidence they end up with when they can't turn those issues around. Throw in external pressures and very public, toxic criticism of both, and it's hardly surprising they've both had their wobbles. I really hope whatever haze has been hanging over the squad the last while got well and truly shaken off yesterday. If the rest of the team can maintain that type of intensity of performance, I think we'll see the best of whoever's at 10. I'd like to see Sam still get minutes off the bench during the rest of the 6N.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,966 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I think our meters after contact yesterday had the square root of f*ck all to do with who was at 10, and everything to do with repeat effort and urgency from the pack.

    Can't speak for leaky but I don't think that's what he's suggesting.

    I think he's - specifically - talking about the metres conceded post-contact with regards the 10's, and in that regard, just from the eye test, I think it's fair to assume that Crowley concedes fewer metres than Prendergast.

    I think it's completely fair to suggest "Crowley didn't magic that [platform] up himself," and Prendergast can rightly feel hard done by with the performance of others here, but I also still think Crowley played better here than we could have expected of Prendergast, given recent form.



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  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 9,571 ✭✭✭fitz


    Ah, yeah, if that's the case I totally misread Leaky there...I don't disagree with any of that, aloooof, Prendergast definitely cedes more meters soaking contact/tackling. It's the primary thing that Crowley is ahead of him on.

    But yeah, I think Crowley was in a much better place to take advantage of that improvement from those around him yesterday than Sam would have been. I wasn't really suggesting Sam would have been as good with yesterday's platform - his confidence is clearly shook. I just lament any takes that frame yesterday as proof that the problems with our recent performances were because of the 10 selection, or that we were good yesterday because Crowley was finally selected instead of Prendergast.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    why would you want to dilute Casey’s experience with Dosk given how few opportunities we have for our clear number 2 to get game time??the rest of it I understand



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,475 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Casey probably has close to 30 international caps. Doak has none. Doak needs international experience a lot more than Casey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭50HX


    Caps & minutes are 2 different things.

    Twas discussed last week & esp the meaningful minutes Casey has gotten v Tier 1 opposition.

    Farrell clearly doesnt trust Casey.

    If meaningful minutes were to be invested in him i'd like to see him get a proper run. These cameo minutes are no good to nobody & i'd include Doak in that as well.

    I can't see Farrell dividing up the minutes between him & Doak evenly from here on in

    Jgp is streets ahead of any other 9 so hard to blame Farrell in sone regard when the drop is that high....thus leading to the question of do we wait til he retires etc etc again



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,555 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Most of those caps are 10 min caps, Casey (if he is the 2nd choice SH) needs as much time there at international level as he can get.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Doak merits a place in the 23. I'm not sure what more we can learn from selecting Casey. Doak's place kicking ability could come in useful in the event of poor form / injury to 10. Having to select Frawley or HB in a 23 as an alternate place kicker provides less choice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    Don't be getting complacent, it's not a training match.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭50HX


    Frawley or HB are in as 10 cover, not just place kicker.

    Who covers 10 if you don't have a replacement on the bench.

    Yes Doak's kicking is a nice string to his bow but not justified in dropping a replacement 10 for it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭JanuarySnowstor


    Does anyone know why 3 of Ireland's matches were on at 2:10pm?? Seems extraordinary to me. Of course the final insult is last day of 6N we are playing first at, yep you've guessed it 2:10



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,020 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    Have you watched the Wales games? It's nowhere near a foregone conclusion.

    Take your foot off the gas and you could be in trouble.

    I really think that anyone underestimating any team in this six nations could be tripped up.

    "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others" - Winston Churchill

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Having Frawley in yesterday's 23 as an alternate 10 ?.

    Has Doak not also played 10 ?.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,966 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Personally, I’d like to see Sam get 20 mins vs Wales.

    I think the break will have done him good and we’re into the down week now for some further breathing space.

    I’m hopeful that the England game can be a catalyst for this team, something akin to the 2021 game vs the same opponent. Both performances kinda came from nowhere, and while this was much more emphatic than the 2021 game, which was much more “green shoots / very encouraging”, we’re also an extra year down the track in the RWC cycle.

    In that context, I think we need to continue to get gametime into Sam too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭50HX


    Yes he has as you know he has but he ain't covering 10 at Ire anytime soon.

    He's a 9 playing v well at club who can also kick. Thats his position in an matchday squad if it arises soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 182 ✭✭Jelly Welly


    Sam needs to prove himself at Leinster before he’s let anywhere need the Ireland 23



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 9,571 ✭✭✭fitz


    Yeah, agreed. And if that goes well, bench again vs. Scotland.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    So, if he's playing well at club and can place kick what more could he do to merit the 21 Jersey ahead of Casey ?. Presumably he's not impressing at camp, but Casey hasn't done much to cement his position.

    I had believed that Doak was a 'poor man's Murray' but he has improved in a much improved Ulster backline. He's unlikely to get more than 10 mins, a la Casey, so I'd like to see him in. (I'd also like to see Casey improve).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,070 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    The team has rediscovered it's cutting edge after a long time of substandard outings. Suggestions of filling the team with subs for Wales is foolish. This is a Championship, not a free game in the CC. There is a huge amount of cash and prestige at stake. Running the dirt trackers against Wales would be the height of folly. I would imagine the 23 from Saturday will be bursting with energy again and all will want to play at Home in front of our own fans. They will want to back up the win.

    As I pointed out above, despite our steamrollering of England in most facets of the game, we still conceded 3 tries and only heroic efforts stopped then scoring more, not just the McCloskey and Baloucoune tackles too. There were a number of times when England were within a gnats chuff of scoring. WE did hold them out of course. Looking back at England's loss to Scotland, they were unlucky in conceding the 2 tries that they gifted to Scotland. Genge's howler was uncharacteristic and Ford's drop goal charge down was stupid and not something he would have done 99 times out of 100. That was 14 points given away and they lost by less than that. Scotland were very lucky then and very lucky against Wales who also should have won. Seeing these 2 future games as gimmes is naive. Best side we have both times please. Players can show their worth back at the Provinces. Let's stuff them, never give a sucker an even break.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭50HX


    I agree he deserves to be looked at re scrum half & club form thus rewarded but it ain't happening that he is covering 10 in a test match day 23



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 360 ✭✭big-al


    Casey needs to earn caps. He hasn’t impressed enough in the green jersey to have locked in the bench spot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,978 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    The problem Doak has is he's trying to be a 10 playing 9.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 360 ✭✭big-al




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,555 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Doak needs to earn caps. He hasn't impressed enough to get a bench spot for Ireland.

    (We can all play that game)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,864 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Yeah I was purely on about the ceding of metres, nothing else really. Both players making, say, 15 tackles and missing 4 or 5 look the same on paper but SP's tackling, even ones he makes, often end up ceding metres.

    It is unlike Crowley to miss that amount of tackles but it is like SP to miss them (at this level). When he plays for Leinster he is rarely under the sort of defensive pressure he is at international level. Crowley is far more used to playing under pressure or on the backfoot due to Munster's pack not being all-dominating… and it shows I feel. I'm presuming Farrell is still going to give SP game-time but wouldn't be shocked if he pivoted towards Byrne. Frawley was a bit out of left-field for me. Wales look like a 60 minute team now, giving SP the last 20 could be best for him right now and get his mojo going again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,555 ✭✭✭✭phog


    If Sam is getting the last 20 v Wales, is there a case to start Crowley & Casey and close out the game with Prendergast & JGP



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,978 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Lol, have you watched any game he's played? He's kicking regularly. Maybe the coach wants that but he's definitely doing the 10s job a lot.



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