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Tesla Talk 2

1777880828394

Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,150 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    The nav is a small part. It’s the other bits that’s interesting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭evftw


    Try to ask your nav to create a day long route with a pub lunch around 1:30.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,079 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Classic current chatbot then — they all do the same thing of being confidently incorrect about their capabilities. Which would also make think it is capable of all the other problems with chatbots like hallucinations.

    It's a kind of weird thing to add to a car to interact with the car's systems (at least that seems to be the plan) - those systems don't really change much, and there tends to be a pretty small and fixed set of functions available, so it's something that's really easy to develop a fixed voice assistant for.

    You want better voice interpretation and contextual understanding, and it's fine to have an AI that can do non-car things in the car (like I have Alexa in mine alongside the Mini voice assistant), but chatbots probably aren't stable enough yet to be controlling proper functions like this.

    Musk loves to use Tesla owners as training data though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,478 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Yeah the voice is already great, so not really needed in it's current form. but I guess this opens extra options down the line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Mine likes to whisper. I think it's trying to seduce me 🤣. I asked why it was using a whisper tone after a few prompts, because it was a bit strange mid "conversation". It then said it would be more "upbeat".

    Stay Free



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,150 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Must be something there if all the major brands are doing it.

    IMG_4399.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭evftw


    If Tesla ever did a marketing campaign: "Get ready to be seduced by your new car - Tesla, now with personal voice assistant"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,763 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Got 2026.2.6 last night. Now of course I have the older Atom processor, so no Grok integration for me yet. But still cool that a 9 year old car gets the same software that is on brand new cars

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,150 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Working for me today.
    I say “navigate to home” and it commenced the navigation.

    I then said “navigate to X address” and it done the same. Maybe it’s learning. Maybe I used the wrong phrase yesterday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,763 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    No idea if this is a trustworthy or not, but I will put it out here anyway:

    image.png

    The poster is a psychologist from Austria and a Tesla fan. Not in any way involved in the RDW decision making. He is not revealing his source. Very little reason to either believe or disbelieve his claim really. This is where he posted it:

    https://x.com/WolfgangAvituv/status/2024831131762176440

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,892 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Not a hope of this passing EU. We've already seen them grounding the fleet in Austin when the weather gets raining. Alas the hype train never ever abates.

    The whole machine is running on hype at this stage.

    Just to add with he major push now towards tech sovereignty coming in. Id be surprised if Elons ridiculously manufactured AI bot passes muster long term. He'd have to start local hosting the data and then implementing non flight of EU citizen data. This is what's coming down the tracks and he won't like that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,128 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Is what's being discussed not supervised fsd in Europe rather than unsupervised taxis , that's what I took from that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,892 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Unclear. Because Tesla have double speak.

    It's not possible for them to do real fsd with their current hardware choices. They either revert back to what they had and build on that or get left behind by the competition in this specific space.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,128 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    I meant the tweet shared, surely that's the first step



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,892 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    First step to what ? Having assisted driving?

    That's what it is. And that's what it will be allowed to be in Europe. Years of this marketing the same thing.

    Will they won't they. Surely it's clear as day now, they won't. The tech isn't up to task. Its own launch of robotaxi across Austin paused due to weather. It's limited and will always be by camera focused hardware.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,763 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    It is crystal clear. The RDW is going to rule on Tesla FSD supervised being allowed or not legally on public roads in the EU.

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,892 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Absolute wishful thinking it's getting the two thumbs up. If people are being plainly honest.

    It would open up the gambit for 'any old ****' from china getting the thumbs up. Theres far too much fluff made of the video AI processing and little attention paid to the inability to video process.

    As I said, it won't pass muster, and the owners current relationships with Europe make the outcome even more certain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭evftw


    You obviously have a deep understanding on AI, automated driving and the legislation and the sensor requirements that are applicable. Like eyes and ears. Hope you are involved in the qualification process happening in the cities in Netherlands since December.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,150 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I’m not fully up to speed on FSD from Tesla but with people giving out about Tesla tech shutting down in bad weather, I assume that means all self driving cars will also shut down in the same scenario?

    Waymo stopped in recent bad weather, power outages etc and yet some on here state that the all signing all dancing LiDAR that the Waymo cars have is significantly better……

    Sounds like no self driving’s cars pass the mustard no matter what tech they have.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭evftw


    If the lidar and camera and radar provide conflicting information, which one or ones override the others?



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,150 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    A bit like a husband and wife road trip then……😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,079 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Define 'bad weather' here

    Like I've definitely been driving in such heavy rain in the last couple of months in Ireland that it genuinely felt unsafe to continue, so I wouldn't be surprised if camera-powered-driver-assist or self-driving cars would disable in such a situation.

    I'm not even sure I would necessarily trust even Radar or LIDAR based systems in such heavy rain - like maybe they'd still be able to detect other cars, and hopefully they'd know where the lanes are (which can be near impossible to spot in bad rain with low-winter sunlight), but would they be able to spot likely areas for aquaplaning etc?

    An argument will be "but humans can't do this well either" but automated systems are always going to have to clear a higher safety bar than the MK1 Eyeball



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,892 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Actually yes I do have a deep understanding of AI video frame processing. (Part of my job) But sure look. I'm sure you know better my guy.

    The fun part is you were trying to be sarky with zero understanding of what I do.

    This will not pass, and yes they need more hardware. That's the simple reality. Camera processor alone is simply not safe enough.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,150 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Not for me to define “bad Weather”. The argument was that Tesla’s “shite system”’shuts down in bad weather. Well guess what, so does the alternatives “super duper” system shut down in the same bad weather.

    Similar to your AI argument in a Tesla. All the brands are in the same predicament.

    Post edited by Gumbo on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,892 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    There is no 'super duper competitor system' There is however far safer and sensible methods to self driving. Camera alone is not it. Regardless of how much people here on this forum take their queue from Elons marketing fluff. Tesla will shut down (correctly) in rain as its is safer to do so. Other systems would not, but they too have their limitations.

    Ive been working in AI image analysis space for 5 years+ Tesla probably have some of the best image analysis going. But it still is an extreme extremely process / human heavy. i.e new scenarios are found every second of the day. With camera processing alone you only have single sense to assist and nothing to reference against.

    It is what it is, but some people don't like reality. They would prefer to call it heresy. (i don't know what else to say). You would'nt let a plane take off from the ground with image analysis as its sole basis for operation. Nor should one think this is good for the ground. - Great driving aid - Not great independent driving system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭evftw


    Fair enough. We will find out soon if the FSDS gets approved and we get access to the software to properly use the hardware we have.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭evftw


    Also a follow up question for mr. Listermint as you didn't elaborate: How do the competing implementations decide which set of sensors is the boss if/when there is a conflict?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,892 ✭✭✭✭listermint




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,892 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    The additional data sensors can facilitate the camera in determining if there is an object there or the cameras vision has been impacted by changing in light conditions.

    The level of scenarios AI cameras have to conflict with is near infinite. And there is a huge amount of human engagement required contrary the the assumption that learning is linear. (It's not).

    Reference points of alternate and differently sensed data is absolutely invaluable. And can be the difference between the vehicle taking a safety subtle swerve to the left or staying the course because the alternative sensor tells you there is no object there that needs avoiding.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,150 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I’m on the fence with FSD (from any brand) so don’t take what I say as pro tesla and their way of doing it, I feel the same about Mercedes and their system and Waymo etc.

    I’m not on the self driving band wagon……just yet.



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