Women's rights under attack

Okay, I normally stay well clear of this kind of thread, but this really annoys me:

why shouldn't I call a bloke in a dress a bloke in a dress, if that is indeed what he is? When did stating such facts become derogatory?

"Stating such facts" - i.e. calling a bloke/dude in a dress as such - has been used as a derogatory term for quite some time, almost always as an implication of some kind of sexual deviancy on the part of the man. It's an accusation levelled as often by women as by men with equally malevolent intent; yet the wearing of one style of garment or another is essentially nothing more than a fashion choice.

But it reflects something deeper, which goes to the heart of this thread : the willing importation of Puritanical American attitudes over to this side of the Atlantic. As a dyed-in-the-wool Irishman, it sickens me to see so many of these "movements" lifted wholesale from over there and enthusiastically promoted in a country that's only barely shed the shackles of DeValerian conservatism. I'm in no doubt that it's worse in Ireland than it is here on the Continent, because ye're fully immersed in anglophone cesspit of social media and "agendas" being pushed by various bad actors.

What's that got to do with dudes in dresses? Well, I'm regularly one of them. A completely straight, late middle-aged man who happens to socialise in an "inclusive" environment where no-one ever bothers to ask what letter of the alphabet you identify as, and where it's increasingly common for men to wear skirts and dresses because they're a damn sight more comfortable than jeans and a t-shirt when you're burning calories at a fierce rate.

And d'you know what? Most of the places that host our events have non-gendered toilets and no-one gives a damn about what hole you pee through, nor whether you need to unzip or unbutton, pull down or hoik up whatever you're wearing at the time. Very often, our "changing rooms" are nothing more than a sparely furnished annexe to the main hall, and anyone who needs to get out of their sweaty gear just strips down and re-dresses without getting their knickers, boxers or anything else in a twist. Children, adults, decrepit aul' folks - we've all seen it all before, it's no big deal; there are always more interesting things to be looking at …

None of that has anything at all to do with women's rights or the pros-and-cons of gender reassignment, yet it gets wrapped up in that thinly veiled accusation that a man not wearing trousers - or worse still, a man wearing something swishy or frilly - is somehow predisposed to sexual assault.

And then you have this kind of bile:

the trend of dress-wearing men isn’t limited to alternative sexualities; it is spreading to heterosexual males, demonstrating that Western society is truly becoming filled with weak men.

For an average female like myself, such an admission is ghastly, and the image of a man in a dress, sickening. 

We live in a crazy, messed-up world where men are weak and dress like women, and women are brash and dress like men. Many of us are absolutely sick of this upside-down scenario. Turning our world right side up starts with members of each gender re-embracing the traditional roles and practices of their respective sexes.

When you have women like Ms. Holmquist telling us that, for the good of (American) society, men should wear trousers and women should "readopt the gentle, caring nature that was once solely their domain" then @o1s1n is right: there's a far greater threat to women's rights overall than a casual observer not being able to figure out whether either or both me and the person I'm dancing with are trans.

My lived experience is that most trans women are actually gay men, that’s from being sound and getting hit upon as a result.
What you seem to identify as a cross dresser, it’s a kink, you like wearing women’s clothes, if I had the balls (pardon the pun) I’d gladly go out in a skirt on a summers night, you’re correct, I’m sure some women’s clothes can be more comfortable.
Does that make you a woman, not in the slightest. You identify as straight, I’m assuming that’s a straight man.
Identifying as a straight woman and taking advantage of straight men or lesbians is a whole different ball game. To them it’s a man.

identify as a cross dresser, it’s a kink, you like wearing women’s clothes

See - point proven.

A woman can wear jeans, or even the whole shirt-and-tie thing, and it's considered perfectly normal. In some settings, she may be viewed as a power-hungry corporate bitch, but that's about the limit of the insinuations. When a Western man chooses to wear something loose and flowy, though - the kind of garment worn by millions of non-Western males, and some Scots - there's an immediate rush to brand it as "a kink".

Extend that then to the environment in which so many boys and young men are growing up these days. If any male exploring his feminine side is immediately categorised as a deviant simply on account of the cut of a piece of fabric, that's going to push him towards a more rebellious behaviour. The ultimate rebellion is "FTW, I'll show you just how girly I can be …" and gender-reassignment surgery.

Again, this has nothing to do with women's rights, but it's part of the context in which all women live. If modern Americanised society is incapable of being respectful of a man who wears lace, you're not going to see much respect for women either.

@aero2k

I'm reading your post as associating me with the opinions of the woman you've quoted. I'd appreciate a clarification as I find her views reprehensible.

Clarification granted. I wasn't specifically associating you with the views of that woman, only your use of the phrase "a bloke in a dress" in the context of sex-segregated changing rooms and sports events. I take issue with the idea that any event or any location can be deemed "safe" simply by providing same-sex enclosures.

On the other hand, a few years ago I would have agreed with yourself and @Former Former Former 's comments about women not caring about dudes in dresses. Not any more! I'm still the same scrawny, bald fecker as I was back then, but since I started wearing skirts and dresses, I've enjoyed waaaaaay more female attention than in all the years beforehand. Maybe it's because I make no pretence of trying to be a woman - just obviously a bloke in a dress (well made and well fitted).

Pity no Trad women in the thread. I’d murder a ham sandwich.

The mens. He looks like a man to me.

I’m not sure lived experienced example make a lot of sense.

My lived experience is that most trans women are actually gay men, that’s from being sound and getting hit upon as a result. 

How does hitting on you mean somebody is really a gay man - rather that a straight women? Wouldn’t a straight woman also hit on you? Kinda curious about your cyclic logic there.

What you seem to identify as a cross dresser, it’s a kink, you like wearing women’s clothes, if I had the balls (pardon the pun) I’d gladly go out in a skirt on a summers night, you’re correct, I’m sure some women’s clothes can be more comfortable.  HDoes that make you a woman, not in the slightest. 

I think crossing dressing is a kink about women’s clothes. I don’t they they claim to be women, and it’s not the same thing as Transgender.

By definition if a biological male is allowed into a female changing room, then it is no longer a same sex changing room. So the right to a same sex space for any woman is no longer possible if people who are biologically male but identify as female are allowed in as well.

Both of those statement are factually correct. A transgender female and a biological female are not the “same sex”.

But that argument falls away, where these spaces are defined by gender, not sex. Which is increasingly common.

The question is, is there a right to a same-sex space, or a safe-gender space.

I think crossing dressing is a kink about women’s clothes

Here we go again.

In the spirit of that Tickle/Giggle article, how does one define "women" in the context of "women's clothes" ?

And if there's an implication that clothing made for women is kinky, doesn't that imply that any woman wearing women's clothing that's borderline deviant? You could almost argue that she was "asking for it" if she gets wolf-whistled, hit on or worse …

And are we still stuck in the 1920s "cross dressing" mentality or not? Because there's a fecking load of women in my family that are cross-dressers in that case, all of them regularly wearing jean when they go out in public - traditional working man's garb.

See : an absolutely stupid and superficial link between what someone chooses to wear and the far more serious problems facing women in general, and both men and women with "gender identity" issues.