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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 835 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    It's also not like Sam did not perform when he was initially selected. He had good games against Fiji, Australia in November. He was then in great form for Leinster against the likes of Bristol, Bath and Munster. He played well against England and Scotland. And not so much against France and Wales where we were playing with 14 men for large periods of the game.

    Every time he has a poor game it is jumped on to show how unready he is for this level. Ignoring games where he plays well. Northampton being a case in point. He finished the season strongly in the URC run in. Played well in AI's against Japan and Australia.

    He is young, and underpowered for his size. He needs to get stronger and a bit more resilient.

    His form now is up and down. He was playing well for Leinster but obviously has not been good so far in the 6 nations. I've no issue with Jack starting on Saturday as he is currently being playing better. But he hasn't been consistently over the last 18 months.

    Obviously the media was hyping him up a lot when he broke on the scene. And now they've done a 180 and it has gone too far the other way. the answer is obviously somewhere in the middle.

    Would Sam be a better player come the World Cup in 2027 if he was not given these opportunities? I highly doubt it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭ersatz


    I’d say it’s extremely difficult to ignore the noise when you’re a player. All your mates and family are probably sucking up everything so it’s part of your personal culture even if you try to ignore it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    It’s nice to see that last weeks loss hasn’t hurt England’s confidence anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭VayNiice


    Would you say Owen Farrell isn't a true elite athlete so??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    What I said is that anybody who can't handle it shouldn't be anywhere near an Irish 23.

    The only thing you can have on your mind while playing is your next move.

    If a player can dismiss it for the duration of a match then he has a place in the team.

    I never said anything about who can or can't handle it. I'm just talking about the type of player that should and shouldn't be part of the 23.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭OldRio




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I'd guess you haven't a clue about teams. You can't have any negativity or anything that takes the mind off the target which is to play well in your next game.

    If you call that utter tripe then that just proves the first line of what I said above.

    If you played or coached at a decent level in any sport you'd know this.

    So anybody with issues, that can't put them aside, should be nowhere near the 23.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭VayNiice


    So I suppose anyone with a sick parent/child or pregnant wife probably shouldn't be picked either then?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    The level of mental & emotional resilience you seem to expect is not a constant in any group. Not considering / selecting talented players who are affected emotionally by factors outside their game experience is just wrong.

    I understand what you're aiming at. I came through a culture that insisted that there was no such thing as tough ; there are only trained and not trained. People suppress outside factors while they do their job but those things haven't disappeared, they're just temporarily suppressed.

    Rugby is sport and sport is entertainment. We love it because it's unpredictable. But we can't allow people who wish to vent their particular disappointment / anger / hate at those who give us our entertainment (players, coaches & officials) to thrive.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Not if they can't put it aside. Some are given time away to deal with their grief/issues, others want to play and focus on the game because that is the way they deal with things.

    Did you ever play sport at a decent level?

    Positivity and focus are crucial. You can't let anything get in the way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Ive played sport at many levels. Never professional. I've also managed people in highly dangerous situations. If you think you can get people to switch off their worries before doing their job you are unbelievably naive. You have to manage the individual. Again I repeat these are people not robots.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    This would include Brian O'Driscoll btw…. who played a game while his wife was giving / had just given birth and said it definitely impacted him in-game.

    If it can impact someone of that experience and calibre, I don't understand why you think it wouldn't impact younger and less experienced guys.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    If you can suppress it while with the squad then that's fine.

    What you say at the end. If a player is suffering he's not going to perform near his best. The haters thrive if he plays poorly again. You keep him out until he's over it, he comes back in and has a good or great game and the hater has nothing to talk about.

    Honestly I don't know what the psychologists are doing with the players. I'd sort this crap out in five minutes.

    Farrell mentioned keyboard warriors, they are basically cowards hiding behind their laptops/tablets/phones. Just that alone should help a player understand how insignificant it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    From your postings while I have been on the forum I would be 99.99% sure I have played to a higher level of rugby than you, including playing with & against multiple of the current Leinster squad and 4/5 of the current Irish squad so I have an idea about top level pros and teams, and as OldRio said, you're talking utter tripe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Do you think maybe it's because they haven't shown such glaring deficiencies in key aspects of gameplay at this level... like Sam has with his defence?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭OldRio


    'Honestly I don't know what the psychologists are doing with the players. I'd sort this crap out in five minutes' .

    Unbelievable arrogance mixed with ignorance. You are essence of the keyboard warrior mentality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Or is this parody? Please say it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 202 ✭✭JeanRasczak


    If you listen to podcasts in the UK last year before the France game they had him as an option for the Lions. That was UK podcasts and they didn't have the same media bias as claimed in Ireland

    The people complaining about him then and now don't really care how good or bad he plays.

    The claims he was fast tracked etc etc, also complain that other players arn't fast tracked.

    Just listen to the RTE podcast, I think last week, with one of the "journalist" roaring about him

    No I don't.

    Hansen is a player who was fast tracked, came into the Irish system and 6 months later was playing a 6 nations game

    Prendergast has been in squads and around the Irish camp for a while after a very successful U20 career.

    It was never his fault then and not his fault now that other players have not been playing better than him. This is what people are struggling with.

    The cries of "player the form player" doesn't matter in his case, it just boils down to play the inconsistent player from my province or, well we have seen the carry on long enough now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    No, I honestly don't think that's a factor. Most of the guys mentioned did have deficiencies or weak areas of their game when first capped and some still do.

    I have a very clear theory about why Sam gets singled out for so much abuse and attacks online, but the likelihood is if I say it here I'll get a warning.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,584 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    its like the shte you would hear in an American sports documentary.

    "The only thing you can have on your mind while playing is your next move"

    "You can't have any negativity or anything that takes the mind off the target "

    I can't read that in anything other than Magic Johnson's voice. It's pure 90s motivational bullsht.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 202 ✭✭JeanRasczak


    Sam issues with defence has been blown out of proportion and has been for a long time

    The same people who constantly talk about his defence will then ignore any short coming in the player they are pushing to take his spot

    We have the claim of the "form player" at the start of the season and he should start at 10, when the form player is Prendergast, suddenly it shouldn't be the form player.

    It's just nonsense

    Also, I think you will find the same people who are claiming Sam defence is an issue, have spent the years leading up to Sexton retirement with all sort of gymnastics to say why he shouldn't be playing at 10 for ireland. All just a load of nonsense. Embarrassing nonsense



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I don't for one second believe that you have any idea about top level sports if you think negativity is okay in a squad.

    It's a waste of my time even typing this except to say I believe your post is utter tripe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭VayNiice


    Delete



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,594 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Think most on here would agree that George Ford is a top class OH? Does Prendergast give up anything in comparison to him? Certainly doubt Ford is a more effective defender, given he's significantly smaller than Prendergast. Probably a bit more explosive making a break, but beyond that, they have very similar styles. Excellent passing and kicking games, good at putting players into space.

    Would anyone here turn up their noses if we could have Ford playing in green?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    The people complaining about him then and now don't really care how good or bad he plays.

    Exactly the type of thing I've been talking about when mentioning the "over-correction" in the opposite direct with regards criticisam of Sam.

    Legitimate criticism of him getting lumped in with the "keyboard warriors" etc..

    The point being - as soon as any player pulls on a green jersey, there are plenty of legitimate fans who have (and had) legitimate concerns about aspects of Prendergasts game that want to see him do well.

    Regardless of what the subset of posters telling us we are "desperate to see him fail" say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    No, I honestly don't think that's a factor. Most of the guys mentioned did have deficiencies or weak areas of their game when first capped and some still do.

    Yes, they had / have defencies or weaknesses but, imo, not to the same degree as Prendergast's defence (and a lot of them weren't installed into the first 15).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Sam Prendergast wasn't "installed into the first 15" either, but most of these guys would have been elevated more quickly or to a higher level if there weren't better players available in their shirts.

    That isn't necessarily the case with the 10 jersey.

    If Johnny Sexton of, 2018 vintage (or even probably 2023 vintage) was still available then Prendergast wouldn't have been elevated as quickly as he was. The problem is, in the most important position on the pitch, all we have are flawed players who aren't at the highest level yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    The the point is, there's going to be a higher degree of attention to someone with such obvious defencies, particularly if they are in the starting 15 rather than coming on as a sub.

    But of the list of players you mentioned; which of their weaknesses / defencies would you say are weaknesses to the same degree as Prendergast's defence?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    because they don't compare, crowley made his ireland debut largely down to a bizarre string of injuries and made his first start due to the starter going down in the warmup. he was 3rd choice for the following 6Ns and only got gametime in a rotated squad

    SP made his first start despite the incumbent being available, so not that comparable at all



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