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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,781 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Responding to myself, but I think it is generally accepted that Kelleher is the better scrummager so maybe start him? Sheehan hasn't exactly been playing lights out. And hope to jebus that the minutes in Furlong's leg last week make all the difference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    You did tho, syd:

    Weird conversation.

    In any case I think we agree.

    But a broader point here is I think it’s fair to make the argument that Farrell’s handling of the 10 situation hasn’t been good and hasn’t helped (either player, I would argue).

    That argument seems to get a lot of push back on here (much like any criticism of Farrell).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    The pivot to talking about this season is solely because it was incredibly obvious that the impartial, sage commentary posted was actually complete nonsense.

    And so was the suggestion that he was indisputably Leinster’s starting 10 in Europe this season.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,282 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Fair, I should learn to read back better 🤪

    The alternative argument could also be made that none of the 10s tried out put in performances which helped those farrell decisions either. Both Sam and Jack, and include frawley, have had deficiencies in their club games and their performances at test level haven't been at the required standard, therefore the chopping and changing was necessary and not a luxury.

    Sexton himself has echoed the view that going into the last RWC with one main out half was a mistake, and they need to look at more options.

    https://www.rte.ie/sport/six-nations/2026/0217/1558939-sexton-reaching-world-cup-with-options-vital/

    If that means sharing minutes to develop every option so be it.

    Those saying right now "we need to pick one and stick with it" is only repeating the mistakes of the past.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭almostover


    The scrum situation is fairly dire alright and there's little to be done about it other than try to play a gameplan that limits the number of scrums in the game if possible. That and get the ball in and out of the scrum ASAP.

    We're down to choosing between our 4th and 5th choice LHPs (Loughman & Milne) or our 4th choice THP playing at LHP.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭almostover


    Worryingly the lineout looked more shaky in the past 2 games with Kelleher throwing to it when he came on. Danger is we trade an improvement in the scrum for a regression in lineout performance.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,781 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yeah he is definitely not as good in the lineout. Or, traditionally, around the field but not sure that is as true this season - alas due to regression on Sheahan's side.

    They are all various forms of desperation measures. One way or another we are getting our ass beat in the scrum, it is just whether it will be catastrophic or not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    He definitely didn't start a Champions cup game before he started for Ireland.

    He was a starter for Ireland in the Autumn internationals and the Champions cup starts in December.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭almostover


    Might be best off sticking with Sheehan so. Maybe kick for touch more rather than kick for contestibles. Will results in less scrums and more lineouts. Maybe start Izuchukwu also at 6 and go after England at lineout time, they have no jumper in their back row. Start Beirne and Ryan also and try to mess up their lineout instead. It's worth a try.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,282 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    That's not what was said.... I'll post again for your comprehension:

    wasn’t even Leinster’s first-choice European 10, yet he was thrown straight into a Six Nations.

    Do you see the difference between what was said and what you posted??



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    This constant complaining about the kicks is down to impatience. Obviously Farrell believes it's the way forward and obviously it's going to take time to get everybody up to speed with it. You gotta give it a bit of time and see how it works out.

    The man has been an excellent coach for us. His 'bad year' we won the Triple Crown.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    How many games did he start for Leinster before the Autumn internationals and how many games had Leinster played at that stage?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,781 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He started the only 2 games he was available for as he was on the EI tour for the others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    And how many games had Leinster played by the Autumn internationals?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,781 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Our line % was actually pretty good on Saturday (90%) but I'm almost certain that includes some that were over-throws and went over the top that we managed to regather.

    Was it last year that England decided not to compete with us in the lineout? Hard to think that'll be the case again this year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    I can see how he was possibly rushed into the setup, but this view that if every young player goes to Connacht they will turn out great I never understand.

    Connacht had 0 players in the 23 last week, good chance there is 0 this weekend. Regularly bottom half of the table. Very rarely playing knockout or Champions Cup rugby so playing poorer opposition. Training week in week out with poorer players than the other provinces (in general), and certainly poorer players than Leinster have.

    There is no evidence that going to Connacht as a young player will get you into the Irish setup and have you prepared for top end rugby. In fact I can't think of a single player that has left Leinster for Connacht and gone on to have a great career with Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    If he only started two out of six games that doesn't make him the confirmed starter for Leinster even if he was away for some of them.

    It may have looked like it was trending that way but nobody can say with any level of certainty that he was the Leinster no.1.

    He definitely became Leinster no.1 after he started for Ireland just like JGP did.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,781 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    This has already been explained to you. The comment people are responding to references him being "thrown into" the 6N when he wasn't the Leinster European starter. It is 100% factually incorrect. There is no defending it, it is not a matter of opinion - it is simply wrong.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,282 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    jesus this is like pulling teeth.

    the argument:

    wasn’t even Leinster’s first-choice European 10, yet he was thrown straight into a Six Nations.

    The facts:

    Prendergast started all 4 of the group stage rounds BEFORE the 2025 6 nations ergo was the de facto starting 10 for Leinster European games that season.

    literally none of that is up for debate here. The initial argument was factually wrong.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭OldRio


    I agree. We have a desperate situation but something has to be done. Rosary beads and another Mass is all I can think of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,946 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Completely agree on Sexton re: learning his trade elsewhere 1st. I'd apply that to a number of the other coaches in the Irish set-up.

    I'll give him this though; at least he has come out this week and owned the coaching mistakes they made in Paris.

    “I felt even before the French game, maybe underdid a couple of things, and then probably got the balance right against Italy. So hopefully get the right balance this week.”


    What did he feel was underdone before the Six Nations defeat to France in Paris?

    “Well, we knew that the game was going to be a certain way,” replied Sexton.

    “And when you’ve got a short lead-in time to a game like France, we tried to prioritiseise things and probably just didn’t do enough of, you know, the ball in the air, the live contests, picking up the scraps.
    “Now, maybe I’m just being critical of myself because that didn’t go that well and we were a little bit unlucky in a couple of instances. We improved things in the second half, but yeah, just putting more of an emphasis on that over the last week and into this week.”

    It was surprising to hear that Ireland may not have spent enough training time on the aerial contest and winning scraps ahead of the France clash, given that the contestable kicking game was such a central aspect of their game plan in Paris.

    That is refreshingly honest to hear from an Irish coach.

    I still have a real gripe with what Farrell said after Paris.

    "You've got to show a bit of fight and intent and we lacked a bit of that in the first half, which is very disappointing."

    He was wrong to do that and it wasnt the real issue. At all. That was a head coach struggling for answers. The issue was his selections and his gameplan. The latter no doubt heavily swayed by Sextons coaching 'strategy' based on what we heard from him previously on the kicking game.

    Of the 6 players he dropped after Paris I expect only James Ryan and the two wingers will keep their place. Which will further undermine his unnecessary comments.

    The only person in the Irish setup to have stood up and taken some ownership of the performances has been Sexton. Fair play to him.👏

    More importantly hes also the only person who spoke brilliantly about the racist abuse that Edogbo received.

    "It's horrible to see that in this day and age, it still exists like that," said Ireland assistant coach Sexton.

    "In terms of how he is, he's good. I don't think he would have paid too much attention to it, and I don't know if he would have even seen most of it.

    "He's a pretty humble guy, really level-headed, but it's not right, some of the comments that were made.

    "I feel for him, I feel for his family, it marred a pretty special day for him."

    Again fair play to Sexton.👍️

    I cannot wait for the day when the Edogbo, Prendergast and Ward brothers all line out in the same team to represent IRELAND.💪



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,703 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    By gar I love a good mass.

    In fairness to the players I think Farrell might be the issue here. We saw at the start of this season both Prendergast and Crowley playing some very good rugby for their respective clubs before the Autumn Internationals. Something happened in the AIs, and I think it's happening again now in the 6N. Maybe it's confidence, I'm not sure, not my pay grade, but the change in the 2 playmakers came when they linked up with the Irish team and Farrell is the man in charge there. I'm not saying he needs to go but he needs to consider if he's doing something wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,781 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He's talking about the situation in the scrum. It has nothing to do with Farrell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,703 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I was talking more generally while at the same time pointing out my love for the mass idea



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭OldRio




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,781 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Fair enough, but at the end of the day, the primary issue with Ireland is not the 10s.

    The play from 1-8 has fallen off a cliff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 oso92


    IMO, Kelleher is class around the field - it's just a different type of class. He gives us a real punch i tight carries that Sheehan doesn't (who is much, much better in the loose). He (Kelleher) is also a greater rucker - again, something Dan isn't as good at or doesn't do as much because he's given licence to roam.

    I'd be inclined to give Kelleher the start, and bring dan on with 20-30. Could give us a lot of energy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    But he started for Ireland in the Autumn Internationals before then. His Irish career started before he played a Champions cup game.

    The post that I first quoted by you didn't mention the Six nations.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,781 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Ok, but that is an entirely different point to the post that started this whole conversation.



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