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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35 geoff2204




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Performance wanes as players both age and accumulate injuries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Crowley and Prendergast are disasters waiting to happen for distinctly opposite reasons. I want to see Byrne get a shot. Far more balanced on both sides of the ball than the other two, he just won't make the big mistake.

    I wouldn't have McCarthy in the 23. I know Ryan and Beirne is a little light but I think overall it's our best pairing in the second row.

    Ringrose has to be replaced but a good option for the bench.

    I wouldn't be against Milne getting a shot after how he did off the bench against France. I've heard criticism of his scrummaging but I didn't see it against France but in fairness they didn't go after us there.

    I couldn't believe that Timoney didn't start against Italy. Conan for me is a beast off the bench but shouldn't be starting. I think Timoney earned the opportunity with his performance against France and should start.

    Front row is a massive concern but there's no great hopes there. We need to try other players though. I can tell you there's nobody in Connacht,

    Billy Bohan looks like an enormous talent but he's only 20 and needs more time I think. But maybe we need to look at the younger ones like him and Niall Smyth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Times have changed. Assuming a win at Wales, our must win matches are against Italy and Scotland. We’re half way. England are dodgy enough - we might get something there - but we look like the third best team in the tournament. Perhaps. Scotland’s back line sizzled against the English. Their centres are in fine form, esp. Jones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Farrell could use the coherence of the Ulster backs as a positive for the team, given how lacklustre Leinster have been this season.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    I wouldn’t be surprised if SP starts either. Don’t think he should, but won’t be in the slightest bit surprised if AF picks him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Completely agree the England game 'plan' of HOOF IT-TAP IT/RUCK IT-RUN IT Perfectly matched to bust Ireland open and Borthwick selects accordingly: Steward, Roebuck, Freeman, Earl, Underhill, Pepper etc

    Yep They arent 'all that' BUT if they get ahead in the game; the Kicking, the Big carries and Big tackles will pound Ireland.

    They will be even stronger this week by moving Freeman to wing.

    Scrum - I dont know the answer but this is an issue across 4 provinces.

    Interestingly Kelleher and Bealham started the game last year v England and did ok v Cowan-Dickie and Genge.

    (Thankfully Ben O'Keeffe was also the referee that day)

    Kelleher to start instead of Sheehan? Sheehan is not playing great, scrum is cracked, maybe start Kelleher (tell him quick throws or hit the front of the lineout or over the top) and have Edogbo also start behind Bealham?

    (FYI POM was saying Bealham is a very technical scummager 'doyaknowwhatimean')



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    I dont think Crowley or Prendergast are disasters waiting to happen. I dont think Byrne is either more balanced than the other 2, He simply isnt good enough. the others are better

    I dont see Ryan and Beirne as lightweight in the row and they get enough work done and are good in the air.

    Bohan isnt near an Irish call up. we should look at younger options but you cant pick guys not even getting games with their provinces.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    A lot of ulster lads owe their international recognition to Richie Murphy. They are completely transformed under him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    They also have the better Sexton coach.

    Irish coaches all have limited coaching experience.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 364 ✭✭letsbefair


    The bad thing is that whomever starts on Saturday will be under even more pressure and scrutiny. Not good and not fair. Time for all real supporters to get behind the team. For me the crowd reactions on Saturday were pathetic. Andy Farrell is 100% correct.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    I believed in building the Ireland team around Leinster when that team was so dominant. Now it may be time to look at ‘synergies’ elsewhere. McCloskey has been our happiest story so far in this tournament.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    Not when the players in question are still under 30…



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,553 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I think Ulster also benefitted from the fact that they HAD to play all those younger lads through last season as they had no other options and now that all those 22/23 year olds all have 20+ starts under their belts they are really starting to show through.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Mol an óige agus tiocfaidh sí

    That may not be on the wall in Ravenhill though!

    But yes. giving the youth a chance definitely played a big part. If only some people could learn to live by that motto.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I wouldn't have a single Leinster outside back over their Ulster counterpart this season. Might put Kenny at 11, but he's very different to Ward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    I can’t think beyond the front five at the moment. If they perform in the scrum like they did against Italy then no back line will save us. What a worry. Sheehan has been ordinary so far, way below his best. Nobody could object to Kelleher starting. I noticed a lineout overthrow from Kelleher too when he came on against Italy. I hope Furlong somehow improves this week. He didn’t look fit. One or two nice passes and that was it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Bohan started the A game against England earlier this month.

    I'm saying I'm not sure he's ready and needs more time.

    Scott Wilson from Ulster also started that game with Gus McCarthy at hooker.

    As regards Crowley and Prendergast. Same has been awful.in both games. People were saying good things about Jack after Saturday's game but he made stupid decisions in that game too. I'm not saying he played badly but those poor decisions can cost a team. That didn't happen on Saturday.

    I really think Harry is better than both of them and I'm not calling him great or anything close to it by saying that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,063 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    One of the major factors in the decline of Ireland's performance is the Nienaber system operating at Leinster.

    Not only does that system not suit Leinster's players, it means that they must play completely different systems between club and country. A greater variation between the highest contributing province and the national team than has ever been seen in the thirty year professional era.

    That jarring variance is best demonstrated in the showing of some superb players like Joe McCarthy, Caelan Doris and Garry Ringrose, who are all operating far below their talent levels, because they are tired, frustrated and mentally drained.

    A strategic decision will have to be made at Union level how to address this.

    Rud O'Connor this morning suggests that although Nienaber runs the Leinster defence, he is also de facto in charge of the entire rugby programme in Leinster.

    He further suggests that Nienaber be paid off, and that Joe Schmidt come in as senior coach under Leo Cullen and that between himself, Andy Farrell and David Humphreys, and indeed with the 3 other provincial team coaches, they institute an ethos of excellence in skills and open attacking rugby that suits our traditions and our physical attributes as a playing pool.

    It doesn't sound like the worst idea to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,939 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    For me the crowd reactions on Saturday were pathetic. Andy Farrell is 100% correct.

    For the sake of accuracy, here is what Farrell said about the crowd reaction:



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,063 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Farrell is entitled to spin that for the wellbeing of his players in whatever way he sees fit.

    But he isn't correct.

    I was there, it was a cheer of irony and relief that Prendergast was being taken off.

    And everyone must deal with the reality of that in their own way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    this is just comedic.

    Lancaster, gone

    Nienaber, get rid

    Smidt, get in.


    and keep Leo Cullen in charge of it all during all this, but don’t apportion any blame to him.

    Are people completely unable to see that Leinster with the squad they have and the manager they have are complete underachiever with Cullen at the helm? Can people not actually see how much it has benefited Ulster getting rid of McFarland and Richie Murphy coming in?


    It wasn’t Nienabers system that had furlong flying over a scrum the last day, or joe McCarthy giving away penalties, or the 10’s missing simple kicks.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    I think the criticism of Neinabar is a bit off. Saying his defensive structure doesnt suit Leinster isnt right, These are pro players. A lot of countries have many players involved that play very different systems in their national team compared to their club/region/province. this isnt anything new/strange or different.

    Joe Schmidt isnt going to come back and its crazy to think he would or should. Why is Cullen absolved of much blame anyway?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    Ringrose out for Saturday according to O’Connor on the Indo Podcast.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Nienaber and Cullen have a job to do, Farrell and his team have a job to do, but blaming one for the struggles of another is a bit much tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭Utah_Saint


    Shame Hume is not in the camp.

    Perfect partner for Stu.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,470 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Pity, I thought he played well on Saturday, although not everyone thinks so.

    I'd expect Farrell to come in, although is there an argument for Postlethwaite, yes it would be his debut, but it would be Farrell's second game so not much difference in that respect, plus McCloskey and Postlethwaite have a familiarity. As someone else just said Hume would probably make sense than anyone, but he isn't in the squad.

    Disappointing for Ringrose (if confirmed), but I suppose an opportunity for someone else, and that seems to be the narrative for this Championship now.

    Edit - we could also move Osborne to 13 and play Stockdale at 15. Stockdale's aerial game in Paris might put the mockers on that idea though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭longjohn200




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    Strange. His words were “There’s confirmation coming later, Ringrose is probably out for the weekend”. So maybe he (or I) jumped the gun and he will be fine.



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