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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers




    He has 4 Ireland A caps, could be a massive opportunity for him, but that’s a very dangerous back line if they play well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    In fairness I am in the camp you would be talking about, and I am aware I am doing it. I just have huge reservations about Crowley personally. He is a very good rugby player, but managing a game and silly mistakes like kicking dead seem to happen with him more than the other 10s.

    Look although I have reservations I think it is now clear to most that Prendergast isn't ready, and I say that as a Leinster fan, and a Prendergast fan because he can do magic things. But he can't be picked for Ireland again until the defense improves, it's too much of a liability. I have no idea what happened from the tee on Saturday but it seems like he completely got in his head the whole game.

    I still stand by Crowley being on the bench and Byrne starting this weekend. I know it won't happen and it will be Crowley at 10 but I have a feeling we will be back here in a weeks time saying Crowley was poor at x and x so what do we do now.

    On the other side of the coin, there has to be acknowledgement that there is a section of support that back Crowley, no matter what. Multiple people online jumping at criticism of that kick dead basically saying "yeah but Prendergast was dreadful so it's ok he did that". Both sides of the 10 debate need to understand that both of them have issues in their games and neither is the messiah, instead of constantly arguing that 1 is dreadful and the other is Sexton reincarnated. As I said above, I am sure Crowley will start next weekend and I hope he blows the lights out because we aren't going to win unless our Out-half has a 8/9 out of 10 performance.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,315 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    I can excuse players that went on the Lions tour for looking and playing tired, but what's the story with the players that didn't go? Some (just some) of them looked as if they're in the same boat as the Lions.

    And then you've got players on other teams, like Russell, who look as if they're fresh as a daisy.

    Worrying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭T-Maxx


    The Lions tour excuse is rubbish at this stage. It was 6 months ago already.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,231 ✭✭✭TRC10


    He is also the only option at 13 

    James Hume, Jamie Osborne, Jude Postletwaithe, Hugh Gavin, Dan Kelly and Tom Farrell all play badminton apparently



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,231 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Well said Andy Farrell.

    'Are we Irish, do we want people to do well or not?'

    Andy Farrell lashes out at keyboard warriors as Ireland out-half debate rages on.

    "No, it’s the keyboard warriors. It’s damaging, you know? And the more we report on the keyboard warriors, we’re giving them, everyone grows a leg, and then it’s ‘let’s do a bit more of it, like’."

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,055 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    The decline hasn't been as sudden as some make out. That game against the worst Wales team in history last year when they were leading at half time was an indication that we were running out of steam. We did win 4 games but that one and then the collapse against France set alarms ringing in my head. It is just that all teams suffer ebbs and flows. The fall from grace for us seems worse because we have fallen from a great height. The decline in forward play has been enormous. Blaming the 10s for our ills is crass and blinkered. SP didn't play well but lots of other didn't and they seem to have escaped the opprobrium heaped on Prendergast. The team seems to have lost the blistering passing skills and thunderous forward attacks in combination that allowed us to blitz opponents.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    You don’t just lose attacking skills.


    Either it’s a coaching issue or the players aren’t performing…in any case something needs to change weather it’s those players or it’s the coaches.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,711 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    This is one way of looking at it. But there's also the argument that Ireland needs to build depth before the world cup in 18 months.

    I think there are enough people who want to play the strongest 15 every week, and enough people who want to experiment with new players and build depth, that no matter what they do, there will be a chorus of opposition.

    I wouldn't mind if Farrell was explicit about the plan. If he'd said this is a funny 6N with lots of injuries so we're trying new players and building depth so the results might vary. Then we'd know what he's doing and he might get some grace from people who just want to see the strongest 15 and don't want to try new players.

    I think if you look at his selections, he is experimenting and building depth and I think it's a good decision. But results will vary as a consequence



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,315 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    I'd agree with you, but there's a pretty strong correlation between teams that dominate the Lions, and teams in the 6 nations that struggle the year after the Lions.

    It's not necessarily causation, but it's still there.

    I do think we've got more than a Lions hangover though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,816 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Just so out of tune. Be surprised if it isnt Sam starting after that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,434 ✭✭✭OldRio




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,816 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Exactly. If I hadnt said that Prendergast wouldn't be missing conversions and tackles and visibly devoid of confidence. Thats just the amount of mystical power I wield.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,315 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Indeed, Farrell was talking about the abuse that both players were receiving, not just Sam.

    This is also after Irish rugby had to turn off comments under the post congratulating Edogbo on his first cap, due to some vile racist posts. Most people wouldn't think the same obviously, but many of those racists are also under every part about Sam and Jack too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,434 ✭✭✭OldRio




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,816 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    I wouldnt keep Ryan and McCarthy together in row. think McCarthys consistent ability to give away stupid penalties has to be punished. Dont see how Edogbo would be found out against England. And ruin him? Unlikely.

    Ringrose isnt in good form. He isnt streets ahead of any other 13 option in his current form



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Utah_Saint


    Would love to see Osbourne at 13 but unfortunately leaves us short at 15.

    Hard to believe we only have 2 specialist 15s in the country (Keenan & Haley)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,231 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,989 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    if farrell cant work this out what does it say about him as a coach ??????

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    The learning is that whoever plays with JGP is always going to look better, so maybe he has figured it out and wanted to see how the pairings went when reversed from the France game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,711 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    On the racism towards Edogbo; I really doubt it's rugby fans posting this stuff. The IRFU are doing some kind of investigation and I really wonder what it could possibly show. Anonymous people on the Internet hurled racist abuse.

    I'd imagine a good portion of it is bots and another good portion is not rugby fans, just racists or people trolling for the craic. I've heard nothing but enthusiasm for Edogbo in real life. His race doesn't come into the discussion in real life.

    I can see the IRFU has to be seen to act, but I also think the bots and racists are getting what they want from people suspecting everyone else is a racist. I'd be fine if they just said they picked him because he's Irish and earned his place through working hard and playing well. Then move on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,102 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Lets just travel back in time to the France game..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    The entire coaching ticket should be shouldering the blame.

    Picking TOT to play LHP - That there is yet another RED FLAG of selection.

    Replacement Italian front row after 58mins:

    LHP - Spagnolo: Age 25 22nd Cap (Benetton) Never started a 6N game

    Hooker - Di Bartolomeo: Age 25 6th Cap (Zebre) 2nd 6N game

    THP - Hasa: Age 24 5th Cap (Zebre) 2nd 6N game

    Yes we know Spagnolo can scrummage but the level of damage Genge and Cowan-Dickie will wreak on Furlong doesn't bear thinking about.

    Furlong basically played no rugby for 6 weeks and no competitive scrummaging to speak of since SA game.

    As bad as the Scrum and Maul were the Gameplan and strategy was again completely off for the opposition.

    Ireland go from one extreme of kicking in Paris, to another of limited kicking against Italy.

    Ioane was at 6s&7s in defence and at times there was oceans of space in behind with the FB Pani not covering!!

    I think its fair to say Italy were within a bounce of a rugby ball or pass of winning that game.
    Im confident they would have won if Brex and Capuozzo had played.

    Ireland look very unsure of themselves allot of the time and yet can score that brilliant try.

    Baloucoune and McCloskey were excellent yesterday. Lowe back to what he does best.

    Reasons to be optimistic for Twickenham:

    https://www.the42.ie/ireland-baloucoune-analysis-6957622-Feb2026/

    England are an average side.

    LO - Ireland finally embracing the quick throw.

    Untitled Image


    Stu

    Untitled Image

    Robert "The Cat" Baloucoune

    Untitled Image

    Reasons to be negative:

    Just like England, Ireland are also an average side.

    The Italy games have been a bellwether for struggling Irish teams.

    The 2019 win in Rome signified that the Joe Schmidt empire was crumbling.

    The 2013 loss in Rome was the end for Declan Kidney.

    The 2008 rnd 1 win in Dublin was the beginning of the end for Eddie O'Sullivan.

    If Ireland put in yet another below average performance I fear what could happen to this team in Twickenham.

    Predicted Team:

    Osborne; Baloucoune, Ringrose, McCloskey, Lowe; JC, JGP; Loughman, Sheehan, Furlong; McCarthy, Ryan; Beirne, vdF, Doris.
    Reps: TOT, Kelleher, Bealham, Edogbo, Izuchukwu, Conan, Casey, SP.

    My Team:

    Osborne; Baloucoune, Ringrose, McCloskey, Lowe; JC, JGP; Loughman, Sheehan, Clarkson; Ryan, McCarthy, Izechukwu, vdF, Doris.

    Reps: Milne, Kelleher, Bealham, Beirne, Conan, Doak (Casey was shook), Byrne, SP.

    If Jack doesnt have his kicking boots Harry has to come on. Jack goes to FB, Osborne effectively replaces Ringrose.

    Ireland should have started this campaign with Crowley at FB, Osborne at 13 and Byrne on the bench.

    Post edited by ionadnapóca on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    I don’t disagree with that but if all issue the scrum is the area where there is most concern for me, that scrummaging performance against Italy was somehow even worse than the SA game if that was even possible…do they genuinely practice scrums at training as that looked like a pack who’d never seen a scrum before.


    The difference between the sides while Ireland are an average side atm we are clearly capable of far better as we’ve seen before, I’m still not convinced this English side is all that. They’ve put together an impressive run but I feel once you put it up to them there really isn’t a whole lot there, a lot of decent players but not a whole lot of players that would be anywhere near the conversation for a world XV which was reflected in the Lions selection.


    The worry I have is while their game plan is quite limited, it’s arguably the kind of gameplan that will make this Irish side crack which worries me greatly this weekend.


    For me it’s

    Osborne, Baloucoune, Ringrose, McCloskey, Lowe, Crowley, JGP, Conan, Doris, Izuchukwu, Ryan, Beirne, Furlong, Sheehan, Loughman


    Kelleher, O’Toole, Clarkson, McCarthy, Edogbo, VDF, Casey, Prendergast

    On paper we are definetly good enough to win this, the question is for the first time in 18 months against a “top 5 nations” can we get a good performance, enough passengers, if they guys want to just go for a jog just stay at Carton House thanks!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 645 ✭✭✭CONSI


    I dont think you can have prendergast as a bench option, he either starts or isnt in the 23 for me. He only covers 10, so if Crowley did go down thats fine, saying that Crowley is more robust of late and doesnt tend to cry off injuted (touch wood), if not, your shuffling Crowley to cover elsewhere to accomodate Prendergast, what if Crowley is having a worldie at 10, would you put prendergast in at 15 or centre, not a chance…I think Harry Byrne is a better option from the bench. Prendergast needs to come out of the firing line for a few games. If as the " rugby commentators" are saying he is playing with no confidence than having him as a target for a rampaging english forward line wont help. I think you give JC the england and wales games, then decide who gets Scotland based on those games. Saying all that we need to move on from the 10 debate, they are not the only reason we are underperforming and I think a few others are playing for their futures in green.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    For me:

    1. Milne 2. Kelleher 3. Furlong 4. McCarthy 5. Ryan 6 Beirne 7. Timoney 8. Conan 9 JGP 10 Byrne 11. Lowe 12. McCloskey 13. Farrell/Osbourne 14. Baloucoune 15. Osbourne/Stockdale

    16. Sheehan 17. O’Toole 18. Clarkson 19. Edogbo 20. Doris 21. Izuchukwu 22. Doak 23. Crowley

    The above is very unlikely before people say but it's just what I would choose if I was AF.

    Farrells team:

    1. Loughman 2. Sheehan 3. Furlong 4. McCarthy 5. Ryan 6. Beirne 7. VDF 8. Doris 9. JGP 10. Crowley 11. Lowe. 12. McCloskey 13. Ringrose 14. Baloucoune 15. Osbourne

    16. Kelleher 17. O'Toole 18. Clarkson 19. Edogbo 20. Conan 21. Timoney/Izuchukwu 22. Casey 23. Prendergast



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,087 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Harry Byrne does not cover anything outside 10 either.



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