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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭Vinnie222


    Looks like he's saying that Prendergast looks good when Gibson-Park runs the game for him. An international 10 shouldn’t want less ball or less responsibility. Crowley thrives alongside JGP because they’re both playmakers; Prendergast struggles with Casey because it forces him to actually manage the game. If giving a fly-half responsibility makes him worse, he’s not ready for that level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Thanks for clarifying. So their point is Sam is not up to this level. Gotcha, thanks!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,781 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    An international 10 shouldn’t want less ball or less responsibility.

    I agree, though this isn't remotely an issue for SP and there is absolutely no way to make any kind of argument for it. He gets on the ball more than any other option.

    JGP definitely is more of a playmaker than Casey. It just is what it is, it means there is a different focal point on the attack. You have something similar in France with Dupont.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    The point is that Sam is young and it’s a step up to this level that he is trying to contend with, and taking him away from the play making 9 that he knows from his club and putting him in a position where he has to do more dictating play and decision making is adding pressure to a position that he is still trying to get to grips with.

    Playing outside JGP is much easier for a 10 than playing outside Casey, as someone said it’s easier be the 10 that’s outside DuPont. Same thing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭longjohn200


    From what Crowley has put out to date, he is not international standard. I fear people will jump for joy seeing Crowley in the team next week but he will offer minimal improvement come Saturday.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,583 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Last week it was

    1.Prendergast

    2.Crowley

    3.Byrne

    Prendergast has a bad game and Crowley a good one so now it's

    1.Byrne

    2.Prendergast

    3.Crowley

    🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    I'm not sure these guys even know they're doing it. I hope they do, because the alternative is frightening..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭almostover


    I agree, it will be a slight improvement. But if you think Crowley isn't international standard then what standard are Byrne and Prendergast at?

    I would argue that all three are international standard. All are capped for their country. But none of them are at the standard of the past two fly halves we've had in the international team. Can't currently do anything about that.

    What can we do only pick the best player even if he's only slightly better than the alternatives?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,023 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    TBH, it doesn’t matter if Crowley is international standard, only if he’s the best option for next week.

    I can’t see how we persist with SP for England. Maybe we give him a run against Wales but his head is all over the place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭ironingbored


    I wonder what the narrative will be next week if Crowley starts and England blow us away (which is a distinct possibility).

    The 10 debate is a smokescreen for the wider underperformance of the squad over the last 18mths. That's on the coaching set up.

    If England do give us a beating, it'll be the same failings (set piece, lack of physicality and attack, loose kicking) that will be the catalyst, not who starts at 10.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭black & white


    Can someone please enlighten me regarding the scrum yesterday. It used to be that if a front row deliberately drove upwards they were penalised but Italy did it several times without anything. Has the law changed ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭Vinnie222


    Totally, scrum performs like yesterday, and the backline won’t get a look in. The bigger problems are in the pack, not at 10.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    It will be blah, blah, blah, it was everyone elses fault but Crowley's, no decent ball to work with blah, blah, blah etc.

    I mean, he's absolutely the least worst option we have right now at 10, but he's no more than that and the love in for him coming from some quarters is beyond tiresome at this point.

    Realistically the best we can do is hope that he doesn't get any worse between now and when Prendergast becomes good enough and/or another better option comes along.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 883 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    Excuses coming in hot and the team hasn't even been picked yet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,583 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    If Prendergast becomes good enough not when. Rugby and sport is littered with guys who never became good enough.

    And notably a common theme is people pushed too hard too young.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭OldRio




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭longjohn200


    I personally think kicking stats need to be improved as well as the error count for both crowley and prendergast before I think they could be at the required standard. Always loved the way Crowley has gone about his business but the period just before Christmas and after, has been quite a low point for him. Hasn't performed well at all.

    In relation to Sam, I do think the amount of abuse he has received will set him back years unfortunately and if you are an irish supporter that is not good. Sam is an excellent player - he just needs time to mature and develop away from the spotlight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭Rugbyf565


    I wouldn’t say Crowley had a ‘good game’, giving away an intercept, missing two tackles and missing touch at the end costing us a bonus point. Our best players who won us the game are JGP and Lowe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,583 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    His quick non bullsht Prendergast slow passing was just as important as JGP coming on. Pretty much every journalist agrees that the changes at 9 and 10 were huge but also all agtree 10 needed changing more than 9.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    Both Sam & Jack are inching forward with time spent on the pitch. Rebuilding confidence from a very low base . Takes time . 18 months to RWC so maybe just maybe this is something we look back on and think this was the critical rebuild. Personally I feel we miss a RWC cycle but maybe I’m too pessimistic



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭shootermacg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭Rugbyf565


    Harry Byrne is the best fly half and goal kicker in the country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭50HX


    I'm completely at a loss re Harry Byrne.

    Did Farrell name drop him over the AI to keep the other 2 on their toes?

    He is in the squad & I think we will see him at some stage before end of 6N's.

    We have issues at 10 but for me the basics of tackling are non negotiable in this position.

    Both current 10's have work ons but tackling is not something you work on at Test level.

    Interestingly SP was not the 1st choice 10 at club pre AI 24, his international caps in Nov forced Cullen to fast track him imo when he clearly still had work ons to go with the talent he has.

    Fast forward to this season & Leinster aren't backing him to start in the tougher away CC games.

    What happens nxt is anyone's guess.

    We have to go 6-2 v England & for me SP is not a utility to cover the bench.

    One of the 2 has to get a meaningfull amount if starts from here on in.

    Farrell sees more upside to SP than JC & he may v well stick with him.

    Its going to be an interesting week



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭Packrat


    If that's what you've taken from recent performances then you might need to getvyour eyes checked.

    Maybe consider this pov instead:

    Both are going backwards - provably so based on previous performances v recent ones.

    One was a 6 nations and URC winning player, the other showed some promise with school, club and province.

    Farrell and his team of yes men have royally fcuked both of them up by their handling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭almostover


    Nathan Doak is the best goal kicker as I have posted with conclusive proof already.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,047 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Its possible to have problems in the pack and also an under performing out half.

    It would be madness to pick Sam for next week. Madness

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭almostover


    Sam can still bench in a 6-2 provided Jack starts. Just means that Jack is likely to play 80mins and move position when Sam is brought on.

    We almost certainly will go 6-2 vs. England. Can't see Farrell changing that.

    VdF will definitely be in the matchday 23 also. He won't be left out again. I'd back him to respond in the same fashion as James Lowe and up his game too.

    Will be some very interesting selection calls.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭Rugbyf565


    9. JGP, 10. Byrne

    21. Doak, 22. Frawley



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭JanuarySnowstor


    Looks like Crowley is a cert for England match. However not beyond the bounds that Sexton forces the Prendegast issue. When you think about it the No 10 only became an issue when Johnny arrived on the coaching panel



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭50HX


    I agree he can, i just don't see the upside of it as it means whoever the bench 10 is only goes to 10. Crowley to 15 ; Osbourne to wherever needed

    It may as well be HB....if he wants to have a look at him at all that is



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