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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭hawley


    In case we gave away a penalty in the next play.

    Communication was the greatest fatality



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    He's absolutely miles off being a complete international 10. And he's 26 now, so it's unlikely he's going to get much better at this point. He's probably our best 10 at present alright, but he's our worst best 10 since Eric Elwood.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,339 ✭✭✭hold my beer




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    Pretty simple really - we're missing our first three choices at 1, and Clarkson is a massive step down from a fully fit Furlong at 3 (as is a half fit Furlong). They also weren't getting enough support from the loose forwards until later on after the subs came on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    I’ll make my prediction once I see the teams tyvm!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,539 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Absolutely not.

    Jokingly, I said after we won the penalty, we could overthrow the lineout, Italy win the ball and run the length of the field to score and draw the game and with the game went, they'd have deserved that.

    Kicking it dead was piss poor from Jack and he knows it but we still had to something with the ball once we got the lineout, the way some are talking you'd swear Ireland score a try from every 5m lineout, the truth is we don't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭almostover


    I posted this seasons statistics here previously that objectively show that Harry Byrne is not better that either Sam or Jack. He is a marginally better goal kicker than them both and that's it. The stats show he is a worse defender than Jack and a less effective attacker than them both. Significantly worse in attack than Sam in fact.

    Sam and Jack are the best we have. Both are far from the level of player we need though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,539 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Brett Igoe's Player Ratings

    20260215_100339.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭almostover


    A pretty fair and accurate summary in fairness. Maybe I'd have docked Jack a point for the missed touch at the end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Harsh yellow card?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    The frustrating thing is both have had opportunities to nail down the 10 jersey and neither have taken it. Crowley has had 16 starts, Prendergast 11, and generally speaking whoever comes off the bench tends to look better. Both have had great moments and poor moments but can’t seem to put it all together.


    The reality is that you look at the top 10 teams in the world, they may start for Fiji and Australia but every other team has a much better option if not two better options. Will be difficult to compete at the sharp end unless one of them makes the step up.

    I’d be giving Crowley the jersey next week and see what he can do from the start. Hopefully he takes it and cements it for the rest of the tournament and foreseeable as the team will struggle to develop unless one of the two gets to that level.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,284 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Casey the same rating as James lowe?

    Beirne the same as mc closely?

    I'll have what he's smoking please



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    He's the tackling stats wrong on James Ryan. Himself and "Big Joe" made 5 and missed 2 and had poor carrying stats (Ryan especially).

    Edogbo made 9 in his time, Crowley, Timoney made 4. Our back three made more tackles than those two.

    I'd love to see the ruck stats for the game to see if that's where they were at, cos it definitely wasn't hitting a blue jersey



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    I think JGP coming on was the winning of that game. The injection of pace he brought on was immediately noticeable. He got the ball away from the ruck quickly and made good decisions getting forwards and backs running onto the ball and over the gameline. Was disappointed in Casey in that aspect. It’s normally something I’d say he’s good at but he looked pedestrian yesterday. Crowley contributed hugely bringing the ball to the line when he came on. He always brings that dynamism off the bench. It all stemmed from the quick ball we generated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    it’s Ireland v England.
    that’s the teams .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭thamus doku


    I have nothing against prendergast and I am all for introducing young talent and rotation.
    I am not saying Crowley is and always was the future. I believe Frawley has also been treated badly by Farrell

    so may I suggest that if Farrell wants prendergast at 10 then Farrell should start Crowley at 15 and rotate both players as required.
    I am the only one who sees that prendergast goes well when a second playmaker is with him, that maybe keeping crowley at 10 when Ireland are defending scrums and lineouts might be good management.

    why does Farrell not say to himself I want prendergast at 10 so I am going to devise a system where he don’t defend at 10.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭longjohn200


    Next weekend will be quite the full circle for McCloskey. Started in Twickenham in 2016 for his debut and played OK however he never took Joe's eye. We have been spoiled at centre for nearly a decade now but I cant help but think what could have been for mccloskey. A maverick for Ulster but maybe just was too loose for Ireland at the start of his career to kick on.

    I've seen Chris Farrell, Rory Scannell, James Hume (albeit a 13) all jump ahead of him in the pecking order at times for ireland but he is now becoming ireland's best centre option.

    Not even selected on the NZ tour in 2022 (before that tour stu had never been named on a summer tour squad outside of Ireland) Stu was called in to replace an injured Hume. He played OK in that final game against the Maoris and provided a very audacious flat skip pass in the 22 for a try which caught the eye. He has been named in every squad since that point onwards.

    Largely noted for his big carries, he was pigeon holed early as a one trick pony and this was reiterated on the media and on platforms like this. He is not, and plays more in a play making role for ulster but he certainly carries it hard if needed.

    33 now but he doesn't look off it in terms of energy. I think momentum will carry him to the WC.

    Post edited by longjohn200 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Worse defender than Jack, better than Sam. Better goal kicker than either.

    You put up a ridiculous stat which was try assist like that means anything.

    He's definitely better offensively than Jack. That's the eye test telling me that.

    Can we get stats for line kicking? He's far better than Jack at that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Now if you think you need to take offense to this then just go for a walk. I think there is something in it. On this piece from Newstalk


    https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRfauc6D/

    Is she Fiona - the person who references the body language of the other players?

    Both contributors seem to think there is something in it and I remember seeing it before when keatley was not going well with Munster - the players will never come out and criticise a teammate but they can’t hide their body language or shock reaction to a bad mistake being made. I remember POM working very hard to hide his frustration at simple mistakes being made.

    It’s possible that AF has lost the respect of many of his team by making selection decisions that a lot of them dont agree with. It was referenced how few people got involved with the pushing and shoving in Paris the last day, maybe there is a simmering or growing lack of cohesion in the team.

    It’s something to watch out for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    you can’t not defend at international level. You might get away with that in league and cup level against lesser teams, which Leinster generally are playing against but you won’t get away with passengers internationally and with our current SH’s we already have a massive defensive weakness.

    I think AF should have picked the games in advance of the 6N and given one of them the start for the 1sr two and the other the start for the next 2. Let them all know well in advance so they can prepare for it.
    Then the last game is given to whoever played best.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,539 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Crowley isn't a FB, he cover there but I don't want an Irish coach bastardising an outhalf into a FB and then bastardising our D just so that Sam can play. We get the best 15 on the field where everyone is comfortable with the game plan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭thamus doku


    Maybe , maybe not.
    but my point is Farrell wants him starting , then develop a game plan around this.
    Where’s the game plan for prendergast , the only game plan I see is Farrell is asking prendergast to be Johnny sexton 2.0.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭thamus doku


    my point is if prendergast starts, then develop a game plan around him. Crowley would be fine at 15, Osborne into centre.

    for all the bitching about prendergast, if there is only change for the England game then it’s ringrose who has to be dropped.
    Like a headless chicken running around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    We’re a team who tend to play off 9 when JGP is there. We looked rudderless without him yesterday and immediately looked better when he came on. I wouldn’t be developing a gameplan around either of our options at 10 at the moment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,539 ✭✭✭✭phog


    My point is, if Farrell is starting Prendergast then he has to be sure he can deliver both in attack & defence and that wasn't clear yesterday.

    I'd be dropping Joe Mc to the bench too or maybe even out of the 23 based on his recent performances so I'm expecting more than one change for England



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭thamus doku


    Gibson park is crucial but he has no running game and that’s why we need a game plan built around 10.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭thamus doku


    Prendergast will look a lot better if Crowley is 15, and they interchange as required.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,539 ✭✭✭✭phog


    The purpose of a team selection is to win not make one player look better

    It's a physical game not a vanity contest



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,711 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Scenes of Farrell on the telly yesterday looking on as if to say "who in God's name picked this team"

    You did Andy, you did!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    It makes zero sense to play two players who currently aren’t good enough to play 10 in the 8 out of the top 10 teams in the world rankings and start them both.



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