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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 884 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    I know this post has been replied to already but this really is a crazy point to try and make. In the Grand Slam game in 2023 I count 7 players - so roughly half the team, got their first Ireland cap under Farrell.

    Beyond that, he was already an Ireland coach before taking the top job. So a lot of these players he was lucky to inherit, he in fact inherited them from himself and the prior work he'd done. The sentiment here is absolutely bizarre. I don't know what is wrong with some of you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭longjohn200


    Not sure what is to be gained this week. We're going to put 40 points on Italy - anything less is a underperformance in my view.

    Think Sam need to up his game big time. He needs to learn to use and connect more with McCloskey. He will create the space on the outside channels.

    If I can see better 10,12,13 connection, I will be happy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,939 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    It's been done to death, but a decent amount of those efforts are miles from "pretty solid"…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,939 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    It's pretty much a lose-lose game… Win well and "it was only Italy". Win by a small margin, and there'll be loads of criticism. Losing is pretty unthinkable.

    I think we'll see a reaction and I think we'll play pretty well here. Prendergast will get far more of a platform, we should get more go-forward ball, and off that and I expect him to go really well in attack here.

    I think Conan, Izzy, and Ryan all starting will make a difference and Doris in place of VdF means that back-row has way more punch than the starting back-row last week. McCarthy needs to step it up tho.

    I'm hoping Baloucoune has a big game, you'd have to think a wing spot is up for grabs if he performs well here. We need to be getting him into the game, and in that regard, we need more from Ringrose and Osborne here.

    Casey needs a big game here too, but I think we'll see him step up.

    And really excited to see Edogbo goes off the bench. (And I think we need to use our bench early; we saw that last week in the circumstances, but I think it's something Farrell has on occasion been reluctant to do).

    There are potential positives going into this, and hopefully we'll see them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭TRC10


    We're going to put 40 points on Italy 

    This isn’t happening



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It's pretty much a lose-lose game… Win well and "it was only Italy". Win by a small margin, and there'll be loads of criticism. Losing is pretty unthinkable.

    Which is pretty much exactly what happened in 2024 after we beat them 36-0. "It was only Italy, it wasn't a great performance"

    Their other results were a 3 point loss to England, a draw with France and victories against Wales and Scotland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    We might put 40 points on Italy, although I think it will be more like 30, but that’s not the problem. It’s the points Italy will put on us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 720 ✭✭✭Madeoface


    Disappointed for Stockdale who at least tried in Paris. Hopefully a good team showing. Casey needs to stop flapping his arms at every ruck and pull out a good performance, he should have the platform to do so and has the skills.

    Can't see anything but a win. 10 points or more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    if we have a relatively error free game and our back 3 deal with the Italian kicking game we will win pretty comfortably.

    Scotland shot themselves in both feet, ankles and knees multiple times against Italy with lineout malfunction, scrum penalties, handling errors and having no dominance on kick receiving and they could have still won the game.

    The game might be close for 60 minutes but we should be able to pull away pretty well in the last 20 with the bench we have.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,289 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Who's volunteering to do the match thread??



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Even in the build-up here, we have posters saying Italy are no mugs etc. If we hammer them, that will be forgotten.

    I know we shouldn't say that it's "only" Italy but it is only Italy, at home. If ever we needed a fixture to get some confidence back, this is it.

    For the new guys coming in, they couldn't ask for a better platform. If guys like Izuchukwu and Baloucoune can't measure up tomorrow, there's very little hope they'll do it in Twickenham. Is that harsh? Maybe, but it's probably the reality. Likewise, if Lowe and Ringrose can't look like their old selves…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 502 ✭✭✭The Macho Man


    I just don't think he has the mentality to handle high pressure situations. I'd question his decision making when chasing a game or under severe pressure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 502 ✭✭✭The Macho Man


    Didn't say Lowe "is" never dropped.

    As I recall Lowe "was" hardly dropped at all in his early career. In fact he missed one of 5 games in his first 6N in 2021, played in I think 8 of the 22/23 6N championships matches. dropped for two I believe in 2022. Can't recall if any were through injury but thats a decent run at the start of his career.

    Regarding no. 9 you've Doak putting in great performances this season and last but not getting a look in. Excellent kicker too out of hand and from penalties.

    I'm not "clamouring" for changes, I'm just trying to figure out the coaches logic in picking his team.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Doak is incredibly different from JGP and Casey. He is much closer to Murray in style. He is ponderous at the ruck (he has gotten better at this).



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Dont see how thats true and his decision making is usually very good and dont see how his mentality can be questioned?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭TRC10


    What did JGP do against France that Doak couldn’t do?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 720 ✭✭✭Madeoface


    Doak is only 24. Seems to be around for yonks. Bits I've seen of him this year he's been impressive for sure.

    In the wider Ireland squad but not getting a sniff. If Casey doesn't perform no harm trying Doak against Wales...



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Not a lot. If we are to stick with that gameplan I could see a role for him. He is a polar opposite to Casey (in both good and bad ways) though, so it really depends on what they are aiming for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,470 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    If we're reverting to a kicking game then Doak might actually be more suitable than many think.

    That said when I look at the back row we've selected for tomorrow, added to Casey at 9, then I can only conclude that we're going to play more ball in hand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,470 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Nathan Doak has hit a new level this season and I honestly think the fact that he now knows he is the undisputed Ulster No.9 has helped significantly.

    So it got me thinking. If Farrell said to Casey, the jersey is yours for the rest of the Championship I wonder whether that would liberate him a bit.

    Maybe the same theory should apply to 10.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Ireland are aiming for exactly the same thing as Paris. Which was exactly the same thing as November.

    It worked against Australia, and It'll work against Italy and like always the Irish pack will pulverise the Italians.



  • Administrators Posts: 56,514 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    It is interesting to see Casey get the start. Personally, I am not a big fan, I just don't see it with him. I also think that he's just too small, he's brave but the laws of physics are unbeatable.

    But JGP hasn't been good, and it would be very unlikely to see another 9 parachuted in. Doak will have to work his way into the squad. Doak is actually very like Conor Murray, he even has the same issue with ruck speed that Murray suffered with earlier in his career.

    It's up to him to progress now. With JGPs age and Casey's obvious limitations he shouldn't suffer from a lack of clear motivation!

    My only real gripe with the team is Lowe coming back in. Think it's harsh on Stockdale to drop him after Paris, particularly when you factor in how long Lowe was able to put in middling performances before he finally lost his spot. Italy at home is obviously a much different task than France away, and it's a much easier opportunity for players to try find their mojo, I think Stockdale had done enough to earn that shot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,020 ✭✭✭50HX


    I don't get the Casey isn't up to it at this level viewpoint.

    He hasn't really gotten a proper crack at it & when you get tne token 10-15mins here & there then the main objective is to keep the ship steady...its all you can do in limited minutes realistically

    I'd like him to get a proper run of starting 6N's games before making the judgement that he is not up to test standard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    He’s played 27 games for Ireland with 10 of them as a starter . That’s a decent amount of starts considering he’s been behind arguably the second best scrum half in the world over the last 4 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    I think he's had a good amount of caps and minutes - I get there is some complaint that he hasn't played enough against Tier 1 sides arguably, but I think the counterpoint to that is he hasn't blown the lights out in the other opportunities he's gotten.

    He's really unfortunate with the timing of the injury in SA in 2024, as he played well that day and would have had a chance to build on that in the second test.

    I like him as a player - and still think he's clearly the second best scrum half on the island, but it does appear as though Farrell doesn't wholly trust him as of yet. He could do with a good showing tomorrow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,939 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    To be fair, if you look at this Tier 1 minutes going back to the last RWC, it looks as follows:

    Season

    Comp

    Opp

    Tier

    Mins

    2025/26

    6N

    France

    1

    8

    2025/26

    AI

    SA

    1

    8

    2025/26

    AI

    Aus

    1

    10

    2025/26

    AI

    NZ

    1

    13

    2024/25

    AI

    Aus

    1

    15

    2024/25

    AI

    Argentina

    1

    7

    2023/24

    Summer

    SA

    1

    63

    2023/24

    6N

    Italy

    1

    72

    2023/24

    RWC WU

    Italy

    1

    44

    You're really not giving a guy much of an opportunity to come on and influence the game when they're getting such scant minutes off the bench.

    The last time he started was vs SA where he was going well JGP's absence, and was unfortunate with his injury. (And unfortunate at the timing of his injury for the 2024/25 6N).

    He's spoken about really well by guys in camp, I'm hopeful we'll see a performance from him here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,539 ✭✭✭✭phog


    The last time he started was vs SA where he was going well JGP's absence

    This is the issue for himself and Crowley, they're getting a few minutes here and a few minutes there but will be expected to be able to start in the event the regular starter is not available.

    Crowley is even a worse position since Farrell started using a 6/2 bench as he's now being used as a utility back.

    The last time Crowley played at outhalf was a month ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,600 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Ok, which ones? The ones where he did a perfect wrap and dropped his man, or the ones where he was effectively tackling 3 people? Presume you're not going to hold it against him getting stepped covering across in open play.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,020 ✭✭✭50HX


    As @alooof pointed out its the minutes v Tier 1 what really counts, also I agree that Farrell just doesnt trust him enough & he has JGP in front of him.

    Even if he has a stormer 2mor he won't be starting v England or Scotland imo.

    Coaches call, just would like a proper look at him, don't see any other 9 getting meaningful minutes this 6 Nations & then we are fast approaching RWC time re games left.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,939 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Given some of the reactions I've gotten on here in the last week, I don't see any value in going into this a week after the game has passed.

    But based on this, I think it's fair to say we'd have some disagreements; imo, it wasn't close to a "pretty solid display of tackling".



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