Cross-border review of rail network officially launched

I imagine if we close the Navan-Drogheda line, it is the type of thing future generations will come to regret despite the sentiments on this thread otherwise.

Route 190, hourly and seems to use single deck long distance low floor coaches. Would suggest a medium demand but nothing huge.

But the same argument goes for a direct line to Dublin, only on a far greater scale. At times you have 5 buses an hour going through Navan to Dublin. As someone pointed out on thread specific to the Navan Dublin railway the route carries at least 900k passengers per year and that's with the traffic delays in/on the approaches to Dublin. I know it's nothing compared to the DART or LUAS as you've pointed out in one of your posts. But that's comparing apples and oranges. If the DART or LUAS are your metric for building anything public transport related, it's an argument not doing anything.

The line would need to be upgraded to double track to handle the volume to Dublin. The viaduct in Navan over the Boyne is single track and while you have very few level crossing, any double tracking would involve the replacement of a large amount of old bridges. Worst case scenario you end up having to build a new railway in practice. Remember it's a freight line and a passenger line has different demands, particularly when it comes to speed and number of trains per hour.

That's before you even talk about putting more trains on the Dublin Belfast corridor. It's a non runner.

A Navan Drogheda train is a nice idea. But my fear and opposition to it, is that is proposed as an alternative to a direct line to Dublin. It isn't. Grand when you have a Navan to Dublin route, it would be a bonus but that's it. There are many reasons why it has been rejected and why there has never been any push to use the line for passengers. Its just a publicity stunt by Peadar Tobin.

The Drogheda-Navan line was originally built as the main route between Dublin and Navan, which meant including space for two tracks. In practice there never was a second track but the infrastructure (apart from a few non-original underbridges which'd have to be replaced) is there. Doesn't mean the line is the solution but it is true that it is of a relatively-high standard when compared to some other lines (Tuam-Collooney comes to mind).

Interesting. I've only ever known the route as a freight route. Also many many old railways have lots of level crossing which while grand in the days of horse carts, are no longer fit for purpose/need huge modification to bring up to modern requirements. Looking at the work required for DART Plus and even some of the level crossings on the existing DART.

I understand the Devils advocate bit, but I don't see the point of train if it's only one/two an hour and then you had to transfer. People wouldn't us it. It wouldn't meet the demand on the Navan to Dublin corridor. A great plan for the future especially if you could connect it to a future Navan to Dublin line.

Re the Railway between Navan and Drogheda it is very strange. A properly built (at least by today's standards) railway line. If you ever drive around the area the lack of interaction with the road network the line has is very noticable (if you are aware of the railway in the first place) So much work and money required for DART Plus is getting rid of/replacing level crossing with flyovers/underpasses.

It's like the alleged saying of St Augustine, 'Oh Lord, give me chastity, but not yet' - the NTA's version could be 'Oh Lord, give us the railway to Navan, but not that existing one, and not before 2040 for the one that we have vague intentions for'

It wouldn't work. Nice idea. But there is a reason why it has never even been seriously considered even back to when the original line was built. I appreciate the line itself is very good and has very few level crossing. But when you sit back and think about it that says a lot about how bad the alignment is for public transport. The reason it has so few level crossing is that relatively few people live a long the line and hence relatively few roads. Duleek is the only town near the current alignment between Navan and Drogheda. Duleek itself was only a village until the last 20/30 years or so. There are also only 4/5 crossings of the Boyne between Navan and Drogheda and only one between Navan and Slane, which helps with level crossing as well. The only reason for the lines existence is freight.

The other problem is Navan does have something else. It's called a bus and naturally competes with the train. While not a perfect substitute it is a substitute. If Bus Eireann doesn't run the service a private company will. It's a profitable bus route. One or two trains per hour to Drogheda then with a change to Dublin won't be able to compete with a direct double decker bus service that's runs 3 times per hour plus the 107, airport bus and Sillan Tours that also serves the route. As long as a direct bus service is close in time to the train it will completely out compete any train service via Drogheda. Unless you are going to effectively ban Bus Eireann/another private company running 3 plus buses an hour direct to Dublin. That's even before we talk about the option to drive at least outside peak times.

I appreciate you are being devils advocate but if you think the Navan to Dublin via Drogheda represents an alternative to a direct train you are both seriously underestimating the demand between Navan and Dublin and overestimating the suitability of the Navan to Drogheda route.

If it is true that a train to Dublin via Drogheda was the original plan in the 1800's was the original plan but it didn't go ahead. That tells you a lot in and of itself. Even in the 1800s a direct route was better and that's before motorways cars and buses. Again while you are trying to be Devils advocate there are many reasons that no one has seriously considered the route over the last 150/200 years. Many documented in far more detail than my posts here.

The 107 used to run to Dublin, so that's a out of date, so what. It doesn't change my point. Any train route to Dublin via Drogheda from Navan has to compete with these services. There are very good reasons why this route has never been seriously considered for passenger traffic since the direct line closed.

The reason to list the bus routes was to give some examples to people less familiar with the area. Because in this thread there seems to this naive idea that one or two trains on a sub optimal route with a transfer is all that's required. It won't.

And so what a few in my list were wrong, it doesn't negate my point. I've actually used every bus route you've mentioned at some point in the past and know people who use those routes on a semi regular basis. Which just reinforces my point, there are a lot of buses that go through Navan and it's growing to the point where unless you are very interested in bus routes or a regular user it can be hard to keep track of.

Navan is a commuter town of Dublin. Trains to Drogheda and Belfast are nice but the main destination for people in Navan is Dublin. The route via Drogheda might be competitive at rush hour if it was direct. But outside rush hour it doesn't have a hope when compared to the existing options via bus. For anyone who wants to go to Dublin City center the bus is quicker and better than the car already due to not needing to pay parking and it's overall regularity even off peak.

Again the idea of Navan to Dublin via Drogheda was just a publicity stunt by a politician not a serious proposal.

I suggest we need and should build both. Our rail network is overly Dublin centric and a navan Drogheda link opens up option between the largest urban centres in the north east which are linked mainly by inadequate national secondary roads as well as all options up the east coast

The reason for the negativity is because as we've seen some posters here honestly think it's a serious option compared to a direct line. It isn't and it's not just me saying that. Grand put in the one train per hour, outside maybe 2/3 hrs per day it's not going to better or even match the existing public transport scenarios even in the best case scenarios. Remember this option has been looked at and rejected by people in an official capacity who have a far far better idea of how things would work than a random poster on the Internet.

In summary the strong feelings come from is that the idea replaces the idea of a direct line. Which is not exactly unrealistic as it has been expressed in this thread.