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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,436 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Very good post. cant disagree with much. On 2nd rows maybe dont want to or prefer to build Edogbo into international rugby with 30 minutes off bench



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 603 ✭✭✭thamus doku


    another bizarre team selection by Farrell.

    I expect Italy to win this game.
    you can get match odds of 8 to 1 for them - crazy odds.
    I am going to stick a 50 on them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭almostover


    Although I agree with much of what you've said here I'm trying to be positive about this selection. Happy to see Casey start at 9 and Edogbo on the bench. Izuchukwu impressed me when Ulster beat us convincingly over Xmas and it's good to see him given a start.

    I think the selection that bugs me most is TOT over Milne, unless Milne picked up a knock or illness or something?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,372 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I said potential to be and outlined the reasons why. It's in no way a controversial post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,675 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Hope we get to see Doak and Bryne this tournament. Would love for Postlewaithe to get a start too. I really hate the 6-2 bench, it's such a limiting factor for a team, and by its nature forces guys to play out of position in the backs.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,436 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Yeah Milne should be frustrated. Agree about O Toole as well.

    Casey isnt an international 9 based on what exactly? You explain a lot of other posts but leave that at end with no explanation?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭almostover


    No offense but you may as well set fire to that €50 note. If the game were in Rome it would be worth a punt. But Italy will not beat us in the Aviva. They may make it close and make us look bad in the process but it's hugely unlikely they will win.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Blaming Osbourne for Ramos 'volley pass' for LBBs try is extremely harsh.

    I agree with a lot of your post syd, but Ian Madigan went into this a bit and suggested Osborne was way too far back positionally when there was no need to be, and that contributed (along with TOB being too high on a 4-on-2 in Ireland’s favour).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭almostover


    Yup Casey isn't an international 9 but Osborne is a generational talent in the backs. Some of the stuff that's posted here is mad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 603 ✭✭✭thamus doku


    I believe Italy will dominate collisions, squeeze Ireland’s exits, win scrum penalties, and punish inexperienced halfbacks with relentless pressure.
    Irelands backline as a unit looks poor.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I think you’re prone to hyperbole, Clegg.

    Joe McCarthy being a “singular talent” and Jamie Osborne having the potential to be “the best back of his generation” being the latest instalments.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭almostover


    They could well do all those things but I don't see how they will outscore us even with that. In that scenario you describe I think we sneak home by 3-5 pts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 603 ✭✭✭thamus doku


    well let’s see.
    France did not really attack out lineout or scrum. We are going to find out a lot about Loughman this weekend, also Sheehan Joe McCarthy Dorris are not in great form, add in we are not starting a 7, Casey/prendergast has a lot bad potential Casey and Crowley should start together or Gibson park and prendergast.

    It’s a poor selection ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,372 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Then that's a you problem. Both players have the potential to be world class. McCarthy is a Lions test starter at the age of 24 and was one of the best players in your until injury.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Taking all that into account and considering the weather forecast, if Ireland win, it will surely go down as one of our best ever wins under Farrell. Agreed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Really looking forward to seeing what Izzy, Casey and Baloucoune can bring from the start. Hoping Edogbo has the impact we all believe he can have and put his hand up for next week.

    TOT covering LH is a bit of a strange call, but Farrell obviously sees something he likes and an ambidextrous prop is always useful. Let’s see if he can do it.

    Overall like the look of the team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭JanuarySnowstor


    Also think it's a poor selection though very glad to see James Lowe back. He's been outstanding for Ireland and would be a cert on any other 6N team. I wouldn't have picked Osborne, Prendergast or McCarthy. I'm convinced at this stage that Johnny is the influence in the outhalf position. Anyways let's get behind the boys in green and see can we beat Italy and get some feel good factor going



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    Worth noting that TOT is scrummaging in traininer against 3 Lions TH props. If he’s making a positive impression in training to the point he’s trusted in a test match then it’s worth exploring.


    Being able to scrum on both sides could be his ticket to a place in Irelands RWC squad in 2 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭almostover


    Lions test starter against an Aus team that Ireland beat handily in the AI? I would get too far ahead with that.

    His performances agaisnt France in the last two 6N games have been very poor and ill disciplined.

    I won't argue that he has huge potential but his attitude and mentality still have a way to go.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Who the opposition was is irrelevant - he was a test starter on merit, and played his way in their on the tour, like he played his way onto the tour with the quality of his performances up to that.

    He was undoubtedly poor last week (and wasn't alone with that) and will need to be a lot better this week, but denigrating past achievements is unfair.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭almostover


    I'm not denigrating past performaces, just giving context to this year's Lions tour. My own personal bias against the modern day Lions probably colours my judgement a bit.

    Joe has been good for Leinster in the CC this season for sure. But at this level you're only as good as your last game. He was in the mix for the poorest performing Irish player last week. Hopefully he turns that around on Saturday. The real litmus test will be agaisnt Chessum and Itoje the following week though.

    My general issue with Joe though is his propensity to resort to stupid penalties and YCs when his team is under pressure up front. What we need from him are momentum shifting moments when we're under pressure, a turnover, dominant tackle or a big carry. Not gifting the opposition 3pts like last week or getting a stupid, needless YC like last year. I worry that he keeps making these same mistakes and that it will retract from his undoubted power and ability.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    The dominant tackles in particular, imo, is what we need to start seeing more of from him.

    He’s the enforcer / bruiser lock, so we need more from him in those exchanges.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,755 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Dropping Stockdale is a funny one, he wasn't great last week but he also wasn't any worse than other backs. Bringing him in looked to have any eye on the next couple of years so why not give him another shot to see if he can impose himself on the game and build a bit of confidence? Now it looks like he was used just to give Lowe a kick in the arse. And dropping Beirne to the bench while starting Joe is another head scratcher. If ever there was a time to let Joe stew on the bench for 60 minutes surely this is it. Sure, Beirne looks like he could do with a break but Joe definitely needs to understand that he needs a bit of maturity or he's out. Anyway, otherwise an interesting team, no guarantees that this won't be a major struggle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭50HX


    Ignoring the 21 missed tackles, 14 penalties conceeded, 18 turnovers conceeded by Italy

    Yes their lineout was superior than Scotland but they were broadly similar in scrum success.

    They are a better side than they have been previously which is good for the 6N's & will give us a test at times but they won't beat us.

    They above numbers aren't great reading, the fact they won v Scot has turned this into a conversation that it really shouldn't be in all honesty.

    As long as we are not silly enough to turn down the 3pts when tney are on offer ( & tbey will be), bomb it down the channell of Ioane as he is poor in the air then we have 2 avenues of decent return to settle the team down.

    Its a kind of no win situation in some respects, loose & the wheels are coming off, win impressively & its how poor Italy were, win playing poorly & its the same o



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    No way Timoney starts against England.


    VDF will be back and if he isn’t Doris will stay at 7



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭almostover


    I'm fairly convinced Farrell wants to play Doris at 7 vs. England. I'm also thinking we could see Beirne at 6 too for that game unless Izuchukwu makes himself un-droppable with his performance on Saturday. And then there will be 2 backrows on the bench and Timoney, VdF, Izuchukwu and Cian Prendergast will be battling for those 2 places. Something tells me Timoney won't be in the matchday squad vs. England.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,085 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Farrell’s immediate post match comments were about a lack of intensity and fight. I doubt he came down too hard on Joe Mc for smashing into a ruck, even if it was a ridiculous penalty to concede.

    In contrast, Prendergast and VDF smashed into very little and are replaced by players who will be expected to bring a lot more physicality.

    Beirne was pretty timid too, Ryan came on like a maniac (in a good way) including that massive hit on Jalibert and he starts on Saturday.

    We needed a reaction to what we saw last week, Farrell looks to have reacted, hopefully the players follow suit.



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  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,397 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    As loath as I am to contradict Ian madigan, and I haven't seen his comments, but that French ruck was inside their 10 meter line so Osbourne had to cover the 50:22. The fact that TOB was actually able to get to ramos from the chip over showed that the covering positions were adequate. What wasn't covered was the unpredictability of ramos, and very few defenses can plan for that.

    Yes the danger could have been averted had Osbourne been higher up the pitch, outside the 22, but that would also have opened the 50/22 option for DuPont, for which orbourne would have been castigated over.

    Our back 3 in that game were no where near the level of their opposition.



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