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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Ireland: Jamie Osborne; Robert Baloucoune, Garry Ringrose, Stuart McCloskey, James Lowe; Sam Prendergast, Craig Casey; Jeremy Loughman, Dan Sheehan, Thomas Clarkson; Joe McCarthy, James Ryan; Cormac Izuchukwu, Caelan Doris (capt), Jack Conan.

    Replacements: Ronan Kelleher, Tom O'Toole, Tadhg Furlong, Edwin Edogbo, Tadhg Beirne, Nick Timoney, Jamison Gibson-Park, Jack Crowley.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,085 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Very exciting selection, can't wait to see them get stuck in.

    Particularly looking forward to Edogbo getting into the fight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,986 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Whats the point of 6-2 v Italy? Esp when you have a choice between Beirne (tired) and a young lad bursting with energy - Bryn Ward. If they felt he wasn't ready, then Cian Prendergast and vdF can feel rightly aggrieved.

    Discouraging to see TOT picked at LH. Milne must be injured.

    Im delighted to see Baloucone but I have allot of sympathy for Stockdale and TOB. Esp. Stockdale. Its just not in his armoury to go and do what Farrell asked of him in Paris.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,673 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    it's year 3 though, even allowing for the shift to a kicking dominated game, we should've seen the system gelling long before now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    MOD EDIT poster warned

    Post edited by Lost Ormond on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    Because we have enough versatility on the backline and bench.

    With how attritional rugby is nowadays getting an extra forward on the bench is crucial.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    Yeah but it’s worth remembering Catt had a 12 month head start on Goodman so it’s was always going to take a little longer.


    TBH IF it clicks in the autumn it might be the best thing for this tea as we might peak just in time for a RWC for a change!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,673 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    We desperately need to get new blood at 13.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,986 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    When is the last time he actually played LH?

    Its Italy. Lets get real now. They dont have a pack to trouble Ireland. They have a very good lineout and thats really the reason Beirne is there with Edogbo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,673 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    While that's true, Catt was starting from scratch. Goodman was coming into a settled team, with a well developed system. We should've been building on that. Shouldn't be seeing a collapse in basic skills.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,986 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    As much as it annoys me in the amount of times Ireland and Leinster are moving Osborne around - He is someone who needs to play centre. He is not a FB.

    Ireland are so fixated on the kicking game they are shoehorning Osborne in at FB and even wing!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,868 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Been a very long road for Edogbo with the amount of time he was out injured, can't help but be delighted for him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Yeah, he's so young and yet still this feels a long time coming. Really hope it goes well for him.

    Plenty of dynamism to be excited about in that pack. Izuchukwu is a rare athlete. Hopefully McCarthy can cut out the stupid errors and get back to what he does best. Having Conan and Doris in the same back row gives a lot of powerful carrying options too, and then you can bring Timoney in when the Italians are tired.

    I've said it above, but feel O'Toole's inclusion and Milne's omission is baffling and harsh, unless Milne is hurt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,986 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Wont be long until Seáned is joining EdEd

    Well, I hope it wont be long!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    The thing is - they're not moving him around. For all the clamour from the fans who want him to play centre (me included), he hasn't played a minute there this season for Leinster or Ireland. Every single game he has started at 15.

    8 of his 19 starts last season were at 15, with another 4 on the wing.

    All signs suggest they see him largely as a full back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 361 ✭✭big-al


    last time they tried this he had a poor season scrummaging at tighthead.


    ridiculous



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 361 ✭✭big-al


    might’ve longer than you think when McNabney returns from injury.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    so the backup plan to having nobody behind VDF is to move an 8 who is not known for pressurizing the opposition ball into 7 and have him doing the captain duties as well.


    I think this is a massive massive mistake.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,372 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    TBF a lot of Osborne's appearances at 15 are primarily because Keenan has become so injury prone. I think Ireland and Leinster need to get out of the mindset of viewing Osborne as the emergency stop gap for multiple positions. He's a good player and generally performs well in whatever position he's asked to play. Nominated for European Player of the Year playing at inside centre for Leinster. Then was excellent at outside centre in last seasons URC knock. And he's always filled in well at 15 for province and country.

    I think he has the potential to be the best Irish back of his generation if he's actually allowed nail down one position. I'm worried we're now actively hammering his development as a player by shifting him positionally so often in recent seasons. The obvious solution is to select him in the centres where Henshaw is in the wane and Ringrose badly out of form. But until Keenan is back I don't think we have a choice



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    I wouldn't be as high on him as you are there. The coaches obviously love him - he's just turned 24 in November and has already got 67 caps for Leinster and 12 for Ireland, but I just don't see the elite athleticism from him that would elevate him to the status of "best back of his generation".

    I'm definitely in agreement his skillset is best suited to 12, and would love to see him play there regularly for Leinster though.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,085 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Doris did very well at 7 a couple of times in 2025.

    The prototype of an old openside groundhog is dead, its about versatility and keeping the opposition guessing. Just ask the All Blacks.

    I think having Conan on the field is by far a more important factor than in which backrow position Doris plays.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,372 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I think you've misread Doris's game. One of his best attributes, perhaps his defining one, is that he's the biggest cheat on the pitch and gets away with murder at the ruck. He frequently slows ball down by putting his hands on the ball, looking at the referee, then withdrawing when told no. But the damage is done and ball is slowed.

    Until this season saw a crackdown in 'swinging' at the breakdown my Doris cheated like sin there as well. He'd pile in from the side, swing his leg around like he was making a legal entry then push for a turnover. Fully illegal but frequently got away with it under the old interpretations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    yet turns over little to no ball.

    The pack that is picked for Saturday, is there any player starting that’s actually good at turning over breakdown ball?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,906 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    who is not known for pressurizing the opposition ball

    That is absolutely not how I would characterise Doris



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    I agree however while the team is settled the team is moving from a possession game to a kicking game so it’s not just as easy as switching from one to the other.

    I agree on the skill part, while losing Lancaster can explain some of it it doesn’t explain some of the handling which is borderline unforgivable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,372 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I should have added that I think he's potentially the best Irish back of his generation provided he gets a prolonged run at centre. I think he has all the attributes to be a world class 12 or 13. I agree that he doesn't have elite athleticism, but that's not required for the centres imo. He's fast enough that I don't think he'd ever be exposed for a lack of pace there anyway.

    He's a great strike runner first and foremost. Picks excellent lines, times his runs well. and has the size and strength to get through a gap in defence. Plus he's one of the better backs around for getting his hands free and offloading after taking contact. Not on McCloskey's level, but I've seen him do it enough to know it's a strength of his game. Good kicker and distributor also. Not a traditional playmaker. But could be an excellent hybrid of the two styles of 12.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    But it’s an attritional game, when you have the versatility we have in the backline it’s more beneficial to have an extra forward than an extra back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    I think he could be the best back…but only if he’s deployed at centre, he’s never going to reach those levels at 15 imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    I’d hardly classify VDF as an elite poacher. I’d argue Porter, Doris and obviously Beirne have contributed more to that since Farrell came in as head coach. Who was Ireland’s last groundhog 7?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,986 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Im specifically referring to the last 12 months. Where he has played everywhere.

    FB, Right Wing, Left Wing, 13 and 12.

    Yes I agree they see him as a FB, but for the now, because Keenan was out for Nov and a doubt for 6N.

    Hence why his only 2 games for Leinster this season were at FB.



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