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Bord Bia Problem

1568101113

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,916 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Murrin can make his co money moving food products here and there on the International markets. This inevitably means he is sometimes using a cheaper and inferior product competing with QA Irish product. That's the conflict of interest at the centre of his untenable position as Charman of Bord Bia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Coolcormack1979


    so at the end of the day.ffg going to stand by their man and fcuk the gobshites out in all weather’s bursting their arses to not have a speck of cow shite in the parlour or a tag number entered wrong on their farm package.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,786 ✭✭✭kk.man


    In fairness too if i were him I'd be smug too especially with what he was dealing with. Sinn Fein really showed they don't know farming two of their female members asked about Dawn Farms doing school meals and meek questions coming from them. Wille Aird rightly picked up on Murrin wasting time with answering the question. As for the rest a combination of poor elocution and repeated questions.

    The standout question should have been, do you accept you would not be before the committee today if you had imported your purported 1% of beef from anywhere other than South America?

    Second question would should have been, why can't Irish qa Farmers who import a red tractor qa bull from the UK not obtain the same price at Dawn Meats as an Irish born bull. Surely that bull has better safeguards than your Brazilian beef?

    It wasn't Murrins first rodeo, he researched it well and he played a blinder with the clock.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 620 ✭✭✭G-Man


    What a waste of elected resources....Nothing landed, he stood by anything he said and gave a reasonable explanation....He has to prove to big customers that hos.company is capable of sourcing meat from other sources.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 510 ✭✭✭cal naughton


    Was the 1% figure that was put into the public domain ever verified? I note he would not say how many tonnage it was for commercial reasons so i don't think we can trust this 1% figure.

    I have a feeling that Murrin in advance of mercosur was getting ahead of the rest of his competitor's in opening up supply chains for Brazilian beef once mercosur was passed. He needs to be asked how many times he flew to Brazil on the bord bia dime.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 620 ✭✭✭G-Man


    Why does it need to be verified if it's 1 pcnt or not.....Is the IFA running out of outrage and if it was 1.2 % would be enought to get more expenses for the executive and more paid media training...

    Reading between lines his customers require him to prove he has diversity of supply.....Has ifa or.any.of the elected officials investigated that instead of the soft questions. ....surely they are not all getting political donations from dawn meats



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32 Shannonsurfer101


    Having watched the committee meeting, it’s clearly obvious that Larry will be digging in and aiming to outlast the current protest. He was very well prepared for this. 


    I really do question the moral ethics of his company Dawn Farm Foods, on numerous times he keep referring that there contracts are to supply the business markets ( not to the consumer) thus, by his own reckoning the Bord Bia quality assurance mark is irrelevant to the company’s strategy. 


    If I was there the questions I would liked to has asked are 

    1. Regarding the 1% contingency for food supply security, what was the geo political event in 2024 that triggered Dawn Farm Farms need to initiate it?
    2. When the 1% contingency plan was activated, what prevented Dawn Farm Foods from sourcing the raw material needed within the Irish market? 
    3. Brazil was chosen as the country to supply the 1%, but did Dawn Farms actively engage in critical analysis studies in other beef exporting county’s to determine its feasibility?
    4. Has Dawn Farms Foods in the past or present used within negations for business to business supply contracts the brand image of Bord Bia to its advantage in securing such contacts? 


    What’s my own take on it?, Larry is business oriented, this stunt has been long in the planning, its about gaining a foothold and establishing relationships with South American producers to take advantage of the Mercosur trade deal proceeding. This will allow more access to a cheeper raw material while using the Bord Bia brand to do the heavy lifting in promoting his company world wide.


    He maintains that Brazilian beef imported was to minimise risk to its supply contacts, but any well run PFC company would not risk such supply security with a county like Brazil that has well documented history of political and economic instability.


    What’s the solution, he steps aside from Bord Bia or us as Irish farmers do not allow any of our quality assured product be traded to a company who outsource raw material from the EU when said country is self sufficient. Especially to the tune of 700%.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,597 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Why not source it from another eu country so, its a bulls***t excuse, the reputational damage for dawn farm foods and by extension ireland inc as the prick likes to call it, if that brazilain beef showed up as contaiminated really dosent warrant the risk...

    Unless he can produce a document stating said supplier requested specifically brazilain beef he hasnt a leg to stand on



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭adne


    All farmers should exit bord bia membership regardless of consequences.

    NNo.Membership their body is pointless



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 4,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    PAC is a media circus.

    At best, Murrin might have been embarrassed today but even that was unlikely given the self-belief the likes of him have.

    However, if Govt thought bringing him in front of PAC would satisfy farmers, they’re sorely mistaken. Seeing his arrogance up close only fires up the blood. This lad is no more a friend of farmers than John Gibbons.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,039 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    Tell me how a farmer producing livestock or milk can exit the Bord Bia scheme without suffering severe financial penalties - who is going to compensate them for their loss?

    As I have stated previously, I'm not in Bord Bia due to the fact that the cattle I produce are sold as weanlings. I believe in the Bord Bia Quality Assured Certification. I try to buy most of our beef from our local butcher but on occasions I also buy some from Lidl/Aldi along with BB certified poultry and pork.

    Unfortunately most eggs that I see sold in shops and supermarkets don't carry any Bord Bia marks which is another discussion to be had.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,916 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    I'm organic and certified by IOA. QA is a pain to me as my factory requires that as well. Some young lad/lassie, with two days training, telling me things to do, to tidy up the place, when the IOA inspector has passed it a few weeks before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭adne


    A coordinated effort which has financial pain has impact.

    Plodding on in acceptance mode won't change anything



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭Jb1989


    So true, people too quick to dismiss the farmer makeing the rules.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,107 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Problem is that QA is a two year certification. If lads let it lapse it would be 6+ months before it would be noticed. That is a lot of pain for the first lads to take

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭Birdnuts


    He must have some dirt on them or he would have been chucked by Mehole et al. weeks ago!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 31,987 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    I'd say he was delighted with himself how he got on yesterday. Reminds me of fr Dick byrne in father ted



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭memorystick


    You could run 10 data centres off his smugness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32 Shannonsurfer101


    You’re 100% right on this, let him produce the contract and show their methodology in picking Brazil. We as farmers know too well about contingencies when it comes to making extra silage for a long winter. Do you think 1% wound cover an unplanned shock with weather ect, not a hope. So how can Dawn Farms confidently continue supply contracts if an extreme disease out break or if war unfolds in Europe with just 1%. I can’t get my head around it.


    In Nov 2025, minister Heydon was quoted saying
    “According to the most recent Global Food Security Index, Ireland is among the most food secure countries in the world and ranks second of 113 countries assessed for food security.”

    So why in gods earth is any company looking else where? Is Willie Aird right, is it all about making more money.

    I know the focus is on removing Larry Murrin from Bord Bia, but Dawn Farms needs a forensic investigation. It doesn’t sit right with me. Apologies for the long posts



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 4,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    If that's his rationale, then there's something he hasn't explained. Because 'continuity of supply' makes no sense the way he's telling it.

    I think he also claimed the Brazilian beef he used was subsequently exported to a customer in the UK. Again, that doesn't make it OK or reduce the impact.

    Imagine if Heydon removed him when the news broke first. We'd all have moved on and even forgotten his name by this stage. Instead, it's just getting hotter. IFA is now organising public meetings with county councillors to press home the message.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭Jb1989


    How come no one has mentioned the few that's locked in the bord bia offices. No food on occasions. Very quiet here about it. Looks commendable they are doing something rather than talking about problems.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,107 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    No company will or is obliged to supply contract information its commercially sensitive information. It may be considered a standard answer, but its the reality on the ground.

    They would also bevrequired to divulge the customer which is not allowed by GDPR. Even allow access to the contract may allow journalist to deduce the customer involved.

    Dawn Farm foods is an international suppolier of cooked proteins. They have bern open the 1% is a customer requirement. At present Australian add NZ beef is available in the UK, but AFAIK cannot be exported into the EU. The requirement for Brazilian beef is probably a workaround to compete with this cheaper product available to compeditors based in the UK. And yes its about maintaining profit.

    So should they have thrown up the contract

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32 Shannonsurfer101


    You’re right though Bass, the reality is it won’t happen. It’s just my opinion Dawn farms secured said contact based on the strength of Bord Bia’s branding and the beef we produce, not because they promised an agreement to a dubious contingency supply. 

    Should they have thrown up the contact?     You’d have to say yes, how could the negotiations lead to this one point. Dawn Farms has been in a privileged position of having access to any amounts of our globally recognised beef.

    If a company is willing to put our brand image at jeopardy due to the high potential of cross contamination etc,  I as a quality assured farmer am not in agreement of them accessing to Irish beef. 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,107 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    You are incorrect every meat processor has both QA and non QA contracts. There is at least 10-15% of the beef going into meat factories non QA. This is processed and sold non QA.

    QA is a stipulation mainly for the Irish and UK markets. For some of the EU markets QA is not required, its not stipulated for some contracts in the UK and Ireland as well.

    So should meat procesdors and Dawn Food not handle this beef?

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32 Shannonsurfer101


    There should be no mixing of the same raw material product for these contacts. If they’re handling beef from a country where small tonnages into the EU has already proven unsafe, contracts have to re-evaluated. A very dangerous precedent was set no mater how small, a product sourced  with questionable standards when it comes to the health of the consumer is unethical no matter where it’s consumed . Majority of consumers are unwary of the origin when its business to business supply lines.

    Hypothetically question, as the EU’s and Irelands beef production output continuous to contract where will the line be drawn in the future if it starts with 1%, do you believe all the other global clients of theres are demanding similar percentages right now in their contacts. 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,107 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    You fid not answer my question onnl the handling of QA and nonQA product from QA and non QA Irish farms.

    As well another processors has access to Polish beef which is not witjinnthe Irish QA system. Is this beef usedvto fill contracts similar to the Dawn Foods contract.

    The EU has a trade agreementbto allow product to enter the EU. Yes there was product found with hormones in it and it was destroyed. However this seems to have been a oneboff incident, there is no other incident since that we know off. So you wantbtonpumish a business that is doing nothing illegal in this incidence. Not only that you want it to turn down contracts where it has to use this meat.

    Usually these contracts are tied into other contracts that are filled with Irish product which then become at risk as well

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,107 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    As an add on what about the odd friesian or Continental animal that is processed as an AA or Hereford. Should cow and older bull beef be processed at different plants watch the price of them collapse.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,360 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    The FSAI were not allowed reveal the source of the oestradiol contaminated beef, because it was already sold and consumed in Ireland.

     It took roughly three months for the contaminated product to be identified in the Irish food chain, prompting calls for more transparency regarding the companies involved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,360 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    Extract: "The hormone involved is oestradiol-17β, which is prohibited for use in livestock in the EU because it is considered a "complete carcinogen" with both tumour-initiating and tumour-promoting effects."

    Why the cover up by FSAI, protecting the companies. Parents have a right to know whether they fed this to their children and the implications of doing so.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,597 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Your allowed to sell a one off quanity of dodgey beef it seems, its a gas country when you see the fines and inspections if antibiotic milk/beef is found in a irish farmers product.

    Processors/retailers have to be protected at all costs it seems



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