Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Mod Note Added 02/09/25*

People will be aware that Spain has just ‘regularised’ five-hundred-thousand ‘undocumented’ immigrants, which has implications for the rest of the EU as they now have freedom of travel.

There was an incredible intervention from a Spanish MEP. She roared at some rally that, ‘We are going to change the law so that they can vote. Of course I hope for replacement theory. I hope we can sweep this country of fascists and racists with immigrants.’

https://x.com/europa/status/2017695726642381214

In fairness, she seems to be the Richard Boyd Barrett of Spanish politics, albeit that she was an actual minister in the last government. But it is nonetheless extraordinary that that current exists in European politics and would receive a rapturous standing ovation. It’s just the latest example of the phenomenon ‘It’s not happening, and you’re racist to think it is. Okay, it is happening, but it’s good and you’re racist to think it isn’t’.

Have to hand it to Ken O Flynn, he is very good at keeping pressure on the government.

1.2 billion is an obscene amount of money.

But you won't hear a word about it from McDonald, Cairns, Bacik or O Gorman.

And this is something certain commentators, when saying asylum is only a small percentage of migration, leave out. Legal migrants are more likely to be in employment because many of them come in specifically on work permits. And that matters in terms of the net costs vs benefits to the taxpayer.

Personally, I think the system internationally is very old fashioned, with the Refugee Convention being written in 1951 just after the Holocaust and during the height of the Cold War. Back then there was an Iron Curtain and it was much harder to leave Communist countries. In the Global South, Britain and France still controlled much of Africa. France still controlled Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. Thats an entirely different context in terms of being able to control immigration and asylum.

It’s no wonder the FFG Govt considered the additional €10m thrown at the World Bank just loose change. Sure I suppose when you’re awash with lolly it’s great to show others how generous you can be…the pat on the head earned from this generosity would be cheap at double the price

I've never been quite so sure about the extent to which the structuring of the laws is the key problem — and with that, the extent to which rewriting the laws would get at the heart of the issue. To me, the biggest problem is the actual practicality. Case in point — once an IPA arrives in Ireland it doesn't really matter if you have the most lax or most harsh laws in the world, because what actually matters is the extent to which you are able to actually give them practical effect. If the existing legal framework placed virtually no restrictions whatsoever in your ability to just boot someone wherever you wanted to boot them, it would be worthless unless you have the practical ability to consistently do that (which typically will require cross-border cooperation, so again you are depending on that regardless of what the law is).

And really, while it's correct that the global geopolitical environment has changed, the practical environment has also changed. It's easier and safer than ever to travel long distances quickly, and modern communications mean that people can co-ordinate journeys more easily and stay in touch on the move.

If the laws are to be rewritten, they will likely need to somehow put in place a system of accountability for countries who fail to co-operate with others on deportation efforts — but that's also likely to mean that everyone has to assume some level of burden sharing too.

Important to bear in mind though that Podemos (her party) are a minority party in Spain which leans further left than the established social democrat PSOE party and tends to direct to a more radical left wing vote. She was a minister via a coalition with the PSOE.

In other words, most people anywhere left of centre in Spain don't vote for Podemos.

Well the decision was made by the government — and the current government is a coalition of the PSOE alongside a grouping of left wing parties (including Podemos) who banded together to form a group called Sumar for the last election. They were able to form a government via an alignment of PSOE + Sumar + support from regional parties (Basque, Galician etc). So I'm not sure we can say that Podemos made this decision, but it is something that they have campaigned for a lot.

You have to contextualise the Spanish migration model here. Over the past 6 years or so they have been pursuing a deeper migration structure with Latin America, tapping into the obvious linguistic and cultural similarities they share — with an overall goal of integrating Latin American people into Spanish society and the economy. Given the relatively low barrier involved in integrating (say) a Spanish-speaking Colombian worker into the Spanish socioeconomic structure, it's not exactly irrational thinking. Of the estimated 500,000 undocumented migrants that Spain plans to naturalise, I'd wager the vast, vast majority of them are from Latin America — and I suppose the economic calculation is that they are here now so we may as well integrate and make better use of this Spanish speaking workforce. Though, more credence will be given to the idea that it's all just about snowflakey peace, love and vibes.

Access to freedom of movement is a right that attaches to citizenship — and I don't believe they are being offered citizenship. They are being offered regularisation that will formalise their presence in Spain so that they essentially go from undocumented to documented. And I think, though I'm not 100% on this, that they aren't even really being given a work permit — more so the pathway to one.

It's also worth pointing out that Spain has done this several times since the 1980s (ie, amnesties for undocumented migrants) so it's not a new thing by any stretch. This one I think may even be slightly smaller than the one they did 20 years ago under the Zapatero government. And amnesties also occurred under right-leaning governments in the 90s, early 2000s and 2010s.

I suppose if you are trying to rationalise their side of the argument, they are saying to themselves that their former colonial base is full of culturally and linguistically similar people who want to come and work in a more stable Spanish-speaking economy and society. So, from their view, if you want to work then we will give you the means to do it and we will acquire your skills, labour and taxation instead of someone else getting them.

Well this is it, if anything it makes them less likely to go anywhere else because they are being offered a legal pathway to work in Spain so why venture anywhere else in Europe where they might not have that security.

Would Ireland welcome back its own emigrants even after a few generations...I expect so

I remember a Spanish Friend who befriended someone from Peru and loved their accent and manner as it seemed so archaic and folksy to them

RTE report on these figures without mentioning the massive pink elephant in the corner of the room…

It's a big club. And you and I ain't in it!

But, we are paying for it.

In that case they would be as well off expanding temporary employment visas for citizens of Latin America and introducing robust conditionality rules, e.g. limiting them to 5 year timeframes, preventing access to welfare, terminating citizenship pathways etc. Provided it was paired with robust conditions for employers it would be a winner.