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Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    yeah i have to say i think if that kick had found touch anywhere in the 22 munster were odds on to score given they had all the momentum, missing touch was a killer that swung the game. shame as wood looked pretty handy otherwise

    same here, looked like he was making things up as he was going at times. some of the throws towards the end were nowhere near straight too even allowing for the wind



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭Pepp1989


    The playing squad is poor and seems to be getting poorer year on year.

    But they also look really badly coached at the minute.

    Very bleak and worrying times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,577 ✭✭✭budhabob


    I think there's a few elements to it:

    1. They aren't badly coached, but McMillan is looking to change the game plan quite a lot and it's just not sticking. It can take at least a season.

    2. The squad isn't where it should be, but there's a bones of a talented youthful team there - we know we need a THP (or 2) and a powerhouse hooker, but we also appear to need a capable back up 10.

    So if McMillan sees out his 3 years, we'll be a far better team at the far side of that then we are now. But it's going to be a bumpy first season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Madeoface


    Probably his history of playing for England. And not being as good as any other player currently holding the centre Jersey. It was Glasgow 2nds he was playing against tonight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,791 ✭✭✭50HX


    This is pretty much spot on.

    Anytime there is a loss there's always a call for Leamy/Prendergast to go. There will be at least a defense change in the coaching ticket i feel.

    Our attack shape & execution has at times the ability to cut any team open, its the inconsistency & discipline thats killing us. We had them on the back foot & Woods miss to touch was the breather Glasgow needed at that time.

    Not having a go at Woods considering its his first outing & i'd like to see more of him. Butler I think is done for...to get pulled at 46mins for a rookie....yikes.

    His distribution at times was OK but then an intercept, miss touch & I wouldnt really fault him for the conversions in first half considering angle & wind, but too often he is not doing the basics right often enough.

    Back row were good & hope they continue as a unit together for another while, Happy with Donnelly shift, scrum got minced a few times but that wasn't all down to him I think.

    Line out much better & a few steals as well. Kelly let rip & showed why we signed him.

    Jager, thankfully wasn't head related but jeez its hard going at this stage with him.

    Mention again for Edogbo Óg, pace power stamina, ruck clear outs, line out option..he is a serious prospect.Quinn up'd it a level tonight as well.

    I'm not as downbeat as last weeks game mainly due to the youth prospect & we have a few v fixable things. There’s no sky falling in scenario unfolding as others are alluding to.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    So the main reason for Kelly not getting a look in with the Ireland squad is that he played for England.

    Did you really say that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 309 ✭✭big-al


    the main reason he’s that he isn’t as good as the centres in the Irish squad.

    munster played a Glasgow side missing 15 players in the Scottish squad and had 6 academy players in their 23.


    that was a shocking performance and result.


    for the 2nd week in a row Munster improved immeasurably once they subbed off their supposed to quality young backrowers and brought on the old guard.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Except that Edogbo and Gleeson both played 80 minutes.…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I have no idea if Leamy/Prendergast need to go, but if McMillan wants them gone they should be gone. He inherited them and, well, something is not working properly.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 309 ✭✭big-al


    both got outplayed by their opposite numbers.


    the best Munster backrower by a mile was o’donaghoe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,577 ✭✭✭budhabob


    And Quinn made 19 tackles and covered for a misfiring back line



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 309 ✭✭big-al


    should have kept him in then, Munster wouldn’t have comfortably lost to a team of 2nd XV and academy players.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    It’s easy take cheap shots like this… but the back row isn’t the reason we lost last night.

    In fact, it’s the opposite. The backrow and Edogbo in particular (who along with Gleeson played 160 mins in the last 2 weeks) were one of the few bright spots.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    It's almost as if Munster weren't missing three loose heads, two second rows, both first choice half backs and both first choice centres.

    That was a long way from Munsters strongest squad. Between injuries and international calls ups Munster were down 13 players.

    But yeah, don't let reality get in the way of your delusion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭Pepp1989


    Down a lot and exacerbated by a very poor squad in general. But also see how the Glasgow 2nds played. Like the firsts in terms of structure. That's coaching. We seem to rely on individuals versus systems. Thats my issue with the coaching set up.

    Also selection- why is abrahams getting a game atm? For two months now he has been way off form. Was Ben then playing with ucc? Daly at 13. Appreciate numbers are down but SOB is an actual centre. Daly was exposed there. And im a daly fan generally.

    For the squad, Like John Ryan was a great player. But it was clear last season that his time at this level is over. And with Jager gone (again) we are down to foxe, ala (also past it at this level and brought in as emergency) and Ryan.

    Butler hasnt been backed by multiple coaches. Still waiting on him to come good. Should a professional team be more ruthless? Woods showed more with errors. Lets see that swap in the squad.

    Im hopeful Mcmillan is the man to wield the axe in the summer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    "But also see how the Glasgow 2nds played."

    This was essentially the difference between the sides & speaks to how well Glasgow are coached.

    They currently top the URC table and last night showed why. They are a very good side & most, if not all, others will find them difficult to defend against.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,792 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    The Glasgow seconds are a very good team and their style of play is perfectly suited to their artificial pitch. If that match was played on a quagmire in Limerick, I think it’s a different ball game.

    We need to see a new OH signing over the summer. It’s absolutely critical at this stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,791 ✭✭✭50HX


    Some posters seem to forget Glasgow topped their CC pool & are absolutely flying this year...that was v evident in the style & manner of their play last night minus the internationals.

    Its going right for them & they have kicked on since the urc title they won.

    Munster on the other hand have been in disarray in some aspects with flashes of potential of what we can do once there is stability, consistency & rectify discipline issues.

    Its a true reflection of where we are when we are now playing Exeter in the Challenge Cup. That's exactly right & fans need to temper expectations. Build it properly this time. Our URC win was papering over cracks, similar to the quickfire start to this season.

    The real pressure on McMillan starts nxt season post Xmas i'd imagine, his bedding in period is over & whatever changes he makes are well in situ by then.

    I'm glad he has backed 5-6 ,of the younger lads over the last 2 games. That will pay off in time.

    As FFF says above an OH is a priority & i'd be open to it being a top end NIQ & having a look at Crowley at 15 & covering 12 as well.

    All bets are off with a new coach imo.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    He is no worse than any of them and has youth on his side. He is the type of player Ireland need to expose to a higher level to prepare for the RWC.


    Henshaew and Aki are done at that level and Mccloskey is decent but injury prone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    he didn’t back 5-6 younger lads. He had no choice - the only player who might possibly have been available was hodnett, and that’s not definite.

    There is absolutely nobody else available and the only thing he did was give Gleeson and Quinn the starting berth instead the task of finishing out the game.

    It’s also possible to argue that he made a big mistake with that, because Coombes and JOD might have been the right call to start a game that completely got away from us in the First half.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Plus Franco Smith is in charge 3 and a half seasons. McMillan is here barely half a season. It's not at all comparing like with like. McMillan deserves more time.

    And I think it's correct that the only 2 teams to pick up a point in Scotstoun this season are ourselves and Toulouse? Better teams will go there and come away with nothing.

    McMillan will be more aware now of what he needs to change - whether playing personnel or coaching staff - than ever. Another summer, pre-season and some of his own signings and I'm convinced we'll see an improvement. (And we're comfortably top 6 in the league at the moment; that's already an improvement on last season).

    With regards our half-backs, I rate Coughlan and think he'll come good, but we're desperately in need of some experience beside him at 10. With JJ on a 2-year deal, I'm not certain we'll see a signing there unfortunately. It'd be near the top of my list, only behind TH. Really encouraged by Tom Wood, but he's only 19. (And while on the half-backs, I rate Jake O'Riordan too).

    With regards TH, John Ryan will be retiring, I can't see how they can justify another contract for Salanoa, and Jager seems perma-injured too. We've been crying out for a signing there, and it has to happen this off-season. Someone like BJ Botha would be worth his weight in gold to this squad.

    At hooker, Scannell's on a one year deal too, unsure if that will be extended. I hope to see our academy hookers get more gametime and think our depth there isn't too bad.

    Ultimately both Kleyn and Abrahams are coming off NIQ contracts, so that will free up some budget and space for McMillan. Kleyn has already signed for Goucester, and I don't think Abrahams will be extend. Iirc, Abrahams was signed before the change to the escort laws, and that change has made him less effective with the general trend of more contestables. With David Humphreys seemingly being rowing back on his front-row ban, this has to be the off-season we see a TH NIQ signing, imo. That alone would be a lead to a massive improvement, imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Any word on Coombes' injury ?. Looked terrible, but hopefully not serious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,791 ✭✭✭50HX


    Starting the back row that we did in consecutive games is the v definition of backing youth imo

    He could have gone with O d onoghue & Coombes to start in both games.

    Wood came on after 46mins instead of the token 5-10mins to expose young lads

    Coughlan started ahead of patterson again

    Evan o connell played 80 & 30mins last week.

    Note Jack o donoghue picked up another yellow card to go with Coombes getting 3 already this season....there may v well be something on that as well



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    It's also worth remembering that Edwin Edogbo would've played in this game too, but he was with Ireland.

    The suggestion that Munster don't back youth seems to rearing it's head again, and it's absolutely bizarre to me.

    Encouraged by O'Connell fwiw, big workrate, and a big turnover too. And for the criticism of Gleeson above, I thought he put in 2 big shifts tbh. Along with 2 tries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    wood came on because butler wasn’t able To execute anything. His head was gone.

    Im all for Gleeson and Quinn getting time, but against a stronger side like Glasgow maybe he should have started Coombes and JOD or split it and started Coombes and Quinn and bring on JOD and gleeson.
    that said, I think we would have had a chance of sneaking a win if Coombes had stayed on


    coughlan over Patterson is hardly a drastic decision. Evan o Connell playing was the only choice available.

    While it’s great these young lads are getting game time, it’s as much to do with the squad being decimated through injury or Ireland call ups.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,315 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Also:

    We were missing two NIQs who would always play a game during the international window.

    We had a last minute change in the front row and lost another one in the first quarter and we had a winger/FB playing centre. Coombes lasted about 10mins before he had to be replaced again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭Canyon86


    TRK saying Ben Murphy has signed and he is expecting further announcements on signings in the next week or two ..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,577 ✭✭✭budhabob


    Some external signings for both depth and quality would be very welcome...both for the energy it brings to the squad in terms of direction, but to the fans aswell. McMillan will be building the squad to suit his game plan - it'll be interesting to see if any of those announcements are coach related



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