Civil servants told to spend more time in the office - Irish Times - Mod warning #526

From Forsa update the DSP are turning the screw on WFH "More recently, the department indicated that staff who have not applied for remote working, or whose application to retain their current working pattern was rejected, will be expected to attend the office five days a week from next week. In a memo circulated to DSP members on Wednesday 28th January"

Be impossible to draw a line.

Theres a massive price and housing compromise people have made to live in Dublin. I think its far greater financial burden than choosing a long distance commute.

But I think it's difficult to quantity.

• Modern Usage: Today, "beyond the pale" is an idiom for unacceptable behavior, stemming from this historical boundary. The term is sometimes still used in a modern, slightly derogatory context to refer to Dublin and its immediate surroundings. 

The progressives might not want to be associated with this old hat🤣

general strike should do it.

Back to the good old days of Jack O Connor and the bearded brethern

No support being offered from Forsa in Department of Finance. Three days came into effect from Tuesday. Where is the Union for us? Big appetite for push back from staff as proven by surveys, meetings, etc. Union not taking the lead on this.

I think for central departments, it's the case the minister(s) etc want access to senior staff and WFH wasn't cutting it….3/4 day WFO for higher scale AP/PO's is not unreasonable. I can see 3 days being the standard long term across the civil service.

Yet, Public Appointments (PAS) can accrue flexi-time whilst working from home. The inconsistancy across the CS is a joke.

That's fair but you're also assuming the Minister(s) are in office 3 days a week. I've never heard of a staff member not attending a meeting when asked. Ministerial/Minister of State diaries are usually heavily planned out weeks in advance and people work around them.

I still don't see how a baseline of two days a week with extra attendance when business needs require isn't acceptable. It's worked for previous years! it also raises goodwill for when people are asked to come in more days, work late, provide weekend cover, travel etc.

Do you think ministers and advisors only contact civil servants for "planned meetings"? During core hours I say they believe thier staff should be available on the end of the phone. Many staff are doing school runs etc while clocked in, and arranging meetings around them.

A senior management grade officer joked that staff were never there when called and always got the immeduate call back. This didn't happen pre WFH/Covid.

That suggests people were never busy before so they were always free to answer the phone.

If people were busy with something or sitting in a meeting they wouldn't be free to take a call.

If I'm physically in the office and in a meeting somewhere else in the building. Or working on something away from my desk. I'll return the call when I get back to the desk.

Or if I had to clock out of the office for an appointment or something you wouldn't get me anyway. Again I'd ring when back at the desk and clocked in.

What's the difference?

The idea that just because you didn't get an instant pickup on a phone call someone not working doesn't make a lot of sense.

There's always been people who never pickup their phone in an office, and they are sitting at their desk.

WFH is obviously perfect and has zero downsides.

Everyone’s always available, nothing ever needs a quick, unplanned conversation. Ministers/Senior Managers only ever make requests through neatly scheduled calendar invites and never want something now.

Walking down the corridor to grab someone is old-fashioned thinking anyway. Much better to send a Teams message, wait 20 minutes, then follow up with an email marked urgent.

Physical presence adds no value. Availability is a myth. If the phone isn't answered, that’s just how modern working looks.

And of course nobody ever steps away during core hours. School runs, appointments, nipping to the shops while still clocked in — all just made-up stories. Sure Pre-Covid everyone left the office freely .

The public service also ran perfectly during Covid, so it makes total sense that the exact same should work forever, any suggestion otherwise is clearly just middle-management nostalgia for desk phones…..And of course everyone working from home is deeply committed to the environment.

You sound like a dinosaur.

This is a good example of modern day online discussions. Absolutely no balance. There is no such thing as a perfect system. Just because WFH has issues it doesn’t mean it needs to be ended and we all go back to the previously perfect working full time in the office. One of the great bonuses of working in the office was heading off very early for an external meeting and taking a seriously elongated return trip. Equally the opposite extreme argument is just as unbalanced.

Sometimes it’s just best to ignore certain contributions for the benefit of the overall discussion. Of course each to their own in that respect