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North Korea General Discussion.

189101113

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,479 ✭✭✭Rawr


    I honestly don’t know if the above is actually sarcasm or if he thinks that Valeyard actually likes Kimmy-boy.

    It’s that off-kilter folks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    .with the freedom to criticise authority figures... then singing the praises of communist tyranny...

    Below is the type of person who has sold a so-called “truth” for decades that N.Korea is a tyranny!

    Sm.jpeg

    (I know Miller is not a capitalist multi-Billionaire, but this is what they are like in their character - deranged barely-human weirdos).

    I wouldn’t buy rat-poison from this type of character, let alone any political beliefs.

    But each to their own!

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 304 ✭✭Mother Shaboobu


    List a few others who acknowledge the reality about NK. Not just a cherry-picked bully. Also, agreeing with someone about one thing (because it's the truth) doesn't mean liking them or agreeing with anything else they say. And it's a very weak, disingenuous argument to imply it does.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    There are plenty of North Koreans who talk about their lives in this documentary:


    This documentary is about NK political hostages held in SK and how the NIS systematically manufactures the NK horror narrative that is then recycled across the West’s MSM.

    https://archive.org/details/loyalcitizensofpyongyanginseoul_202002

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,706 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    NK1.jpg

    Cooking with methane from human excrement.

    Yummy, sign me up, what a place to live.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,479 ✭✭✭Rawr


    But don’t you know Oisin? That this is an expression of the DPRK’s ethos of Juche self-reliance and green living?

    Or some such bullshit…. Ha! Quite literally!! :D

    Not to worry, the North Korean propganda spin on this will magically appear soon to enlighten you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    For anybody who watched The Loyal Citizens Of Pyongyang doc, what did you make of:-

    Mr Choi – who was reported to police by a SK church group because he spoke positively about Kim Il Sung.
    Him saying that the human rights situation in NK is among the best in the world.

    Mrs Kim Ryeon Hui – the story of the Americans on the border asking for cows tails, or electrical cabling, in exchange for a bag of rice (during the famine/societal collapse in the 90s).

    Her multiple suicide attempts since she has no legal or illegal way to get back to N.Korea.

    All 3 interviewees personal, detailed experiences with the ROK/US defector industrial complex?

    I wonder why they don’t import natural gas like other countries?

    As you know cattle slurry is used to fertilise grass, cereal crops, peas, beans, and oats on Irish farms – so you’re already signed up for that.
    Using it to make cooking gas is innovative IMO.

    That documentary is some kind of German/ROK production so it mostly tries to stick with the Western script of trying to protray NK as a mad/sad place (eg. one could film sad, glum faces thru bus windows in slow motion here too – for the same narrative effect).

    What makes this Western doc fairly unique is they (possibly) accidentally humanised most of the interviewees. That is a big no-no in the grey, war propaganda fare we are fed on MSM.

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,479 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Jebus. I really should start charging people for this clairvoyance I appear to possess. It’s almost like I can predict the future.

    Alas I won’t do that, because I possess a moral compass that prevents me from profiting from such shenanigans…or from supporting totalitarian dictatorships designed to preserve the power of one family.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    Rawr, I don't think you know what a discussion forum is.

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,706 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    fairly sure nobody in history has used human shite to cook unless they were very very desparate and short on resources.

    If you disagree, maybe ask the next head chief while you're out dining to whip you up a couple of courses using one of his giant gaseous turds. If you then could report back that would be great.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,653 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Nobody is gonna trust a person who seems to downplay totalitarianism and upsell propaganda.…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    US ruling class:- Trade with N.Korea and you can’t trade with the US or its Asian vassals.
    You :- “NK must be very short of energy resources”.

    It’s almost like there is an inability to join the dots.

    Roll on BRICS and an end to this law-of-the-jungle.

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭csirl


    The division of Korea created an interesting controlled experiment as to which system is better. Would be difficult to argue anything other than RoK has been a huge success.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    Propaganda is just a neutral term for information. The US & previous empires utilise 100% deceitful information in their propaganda (billionaire owned & controlled media) thus they are the ones with zero credibility.

    Look at the way Western MSM have downplayed the US genocide in Palestine with their headlines, framing & styling. This genocide is mask off for most (?) people now about what the US really is.
    Imagine buying the US/Western narrative on NK totalitatianism, now, from the country that slaughtered 25% of its prewar population 70 years ago. Surreal doesn't even begin to describe that viewpoint.

    To justify you “totalitarianism” claim, you would have to answer below:-

    “I trust the UN/HRW/AA reports on human rights in NK, even though they are based entirely on allegations from US security state cut-outs and the US/ROK $$$ defector industrial complex because

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭silliussoddius




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,706 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Love moving the goalposts, don't you?

    You posted the video to show us all how great North Koreans have it and all the usual media we consume about the place is propaganda, your video would show things how they 'really' are.

    Said video showed people using human excrement to cook with.

    It's almost like there's an inability to see blatant facts about the place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,479 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Oh but Lucien, I ensure you that not I only do I know what a discussion forum is, but I can also form a definition that serves the topic of this thread.

    A Discussion Forum is a place where you can discuss, among other things, how much of a bell-end Kim Jong Un is…*without* getting yourself or 3 generations of your family thrown into a prison camp for the rest of your days…(or what’s left of them once you are in there).

    We can do that here my dear 동무 without danger. Just try to do that same in North Korea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    without getting yourself or 3 generations of your family thrown into a prison camp for the rest of your days

    Back to the level of Daily Mail cartoons, Eh?

    Here’s a relevant slide from advice for visiting tourists - from a N.Korean.

    Jokes.png

    A traditional culture strongly linked to its long history;
    not a localised variant of hollow, beige, homogenised, empire uni-culture (eg. SK) and NK being relentlessly attacked by the US capitalist class for 80 years is also a component of NK’s hedgehog national defensive posture.

    US gov’s & vassals have failed to undermine NK’s national dignity despite decades of mocking propaganda and that really irks them. Awww

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,706 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    So you admit that it's an absolutely terrible place to live, where most of society is actually dirt poor to the point where some folks are resorting to cooking with gas from human excrement?

    Glad we're finally on the same page.

    Could we then extrapolate negative things from this about those who hold power in the country?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,479 ✭✭✭Rawr


    You'll notice how focusing on the Kims brings out one of the default pre-programmed rebuttals. NSA, CIA, and now Daily Mail Cartoon apparently.

    Kimmy-boy and his family is the biggest piece in this Jenga tower of reality-denial and it appears that best way to avoid the whole thing from toppling in head of a typical KFA member is to ignore that problem. You can't really fit the "Kim Family" square-block into the circular "People's Republic" hole…..a state where one family is guarenteed absolute power beyond reproach is not a democracy.

    But as I've mentioned before, KFA Members are likely not seeking contructive debate on this at all…all of this is an exercise in reaffirming a fantasy where the world is at fault and where they do not need to address their own demons.

    The world isn't real don't you know…it's a cartoon apperently…



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,701 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    "Did you ever consider that it possibly might have something to do with that?"

    Not really, no. Unless DPRK reconstruction ability is utterly atrocious, even with the external help received from countries like the DDR. I might observe that it was only a couple years earlier that German cities suffered a similar fate before sending DDR personnel to DPRK, so there was some experience. Japan was outright nuked and firebombed.

    Both are, I would say, pretty reasonably connected countries today.

    Destruction is also not a handicap unique to DPRK on the peninsula.

    Busan…

    image.png

    Daejon..

    image.png

    Pusan

    image.png

    Seoul…

    image.png

    I would find it difficult to look at those photos and identify them as being particularly different from photos of Pyongyang, Namp'o or Haeju from the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    As you know, major fighting only took place on the puppet state’s territory from 25 June to around 8 Oct 1950- so 3 and a bit months. After Oct 1950 approx 75% of SK saw no war again.

    The entire rest of the war was:-
    1 year fully on NK territory and
    1 year 9 months mostly static at (or small movements either side of) the 38th parallel.


    Throughout the war, the US & vassals, with UN approval, attempted by bombing & other WMD to exterminate the entire NK population. That crime against humanity, I think any reasonable person would acknowledge was pure barbarism. However, the DPRK or its allies did not carry out a similar air campaign of extermination against SK because they are all one people, one nationality – such a policy was and is unthinkable.

    So, the opinion that war destruction in SK was about the same as that in NK is not related to the facts.

    [ I won’t ask you if you think the US was being imperialist in Korea, because when I asked others on here before, no answer was forthcoming ].

    I don’t have the source for the following to hand but will put it up if I come across it again:-
    I had read that NK rebuilt the core of its cities & infrastructure within 5 or 6 years; that its economy performed far ahead of the puppet state during the 60s & 70s.

    SK was a fascist dictatorship until just before the Seoul Olympics. The US was more focussed on mass-murdering all S.Koreans who opposed its presence on the peninsula (including the Jeju massacre). SK only began to outperform NK economically (with US help) in the 90s!

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,706 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Mod: Warning issued for breaking site rules

    Post edited by Trigger on


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 19,443 Mod ✭✭✭✭Trigger


    Mod: @Lucien_Sarti cut out the "Puppet State" comments



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭Enduro


    And yet South Korea manages to be a much more advanced, much more prosperous, and much more democratic country than North Korea, without needing to get all precious about their leaders and banning any humour.

    Do you really expect Irish people to be impressed by a "culture" that outright bans mockery and humour? Look around you. This is a country with a long and continuing history of ripping the P out of its politicians. (Halls Pictorial Weekly, Scrap Saturday, Giftgrub etc etc etc). North Korea sure looks a total "shithole" of an administration in this regard from an Irish perspective.

    Like yourself, they'd be laughed out of it if they tried that on in a free and democratic country like Ireland. Particularly in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    Fair point – will no longer refer to ROK by that term so. I am fairly deep into the Korean topic so I can see now how referring to ROK by that term, could be seen by a general readership as a deliberate wind-up or not conducive to calm deliberation.

    That absolutely wasn’t my intention; I didn’t even think of that. I was coming at this from a long historical timeline of power politics, such as

    ISC.png


    or South Vietnam 1955-1975, etc.

    But anyway...

    Do you really expect Irish people to be impressed by a "culture" that outright bans mockery and humour?

    This is a really weird interpretation of my extremely limited, partial understanding / explanation of historical Korean culture.

    Impressed by Korean Culture?

    What?

    Ignoring the open ended 50-53 war of extermination context; again!!!

    Can’t respond properly now. Will do when I can.

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,479 ✭✭✭Rawr


    That’s another North / South comparison worth considering. Despite coming from the same root culture prior to seperation, there is a notable difference to how both sides relate to political leaders. In South Korea the people can and have soured on their elected leaders if they do a bad job. One example in particular comes to mind:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Park_Geun-hye?wprov=sfti1#

    Park Geun-hye was President of South Korea during the Sewol Ferry Disaster, and notably did an incredibly piss poor job at leading during that event (and might have even frustrated any hopes of saving the kids on board). This triggered a public backlash that culminated in her impeachment from office due to corruption. She isn’t the only South Korean President to be removed from office either, it has happened a couple of other times. Point is, in South Korea a president can and will be removed from office for letting the country down. By impeachment or the ballot box, this is how a functioning democracy works. The Presidnecy does not give the holder magical god-like protection from critique.

    But what about North Korea? Well, if we ignore the fact that the embalmed corpse of Kim Il Sung is still technically the President of North Korea; the state has had all of 3 men leading the country, all of whom are in the same family. When we talk of who would be next in line to lead North Korea, you’ll notice there’s little to no talk of any kind of new leader working their way up the ranks of the WPK to become the new leader…no…there is talk of which of Kim Jong Un’s kids will succeed him. That’s because North Korea went and resurrected Feudal Korean Empire rule, with some stars added to make it all seem… «Communist». The North Koreans have a King and that King may never be besmurched or you and your family will pay dearly for it. They will never be held to account, corrected for doing a bad job or expected to earn their role beyond being a male born into the family (and not getting caught going to Tokyo Disneyland)

    That is the stark difference between the Koreas. In the South you can freely disagree with the President and even protest to the point of their removal from office. But in the North….don’t you dare even think it…or you will pay.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    In the US, Europe or in other so-called 'Liberal Democracies' you can call politicians bad names (whoop-de-doo - freedum, - yay) protest endlessly against the Palestinian genocide and all the wars but -

    the wars keep happening, the genocide keep happening.

    What could the problem be ???

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,479 ✭✭✭Rawr


    You did notice the bit where I mentioned that the South Koreans removed their President from office for being crap at the job? Didn’t you?

    I noticed the bit where you didn’t even respond to the whole Royal installation of the Kims and how they are so protected from such Democratic….*expression*
    But we can’t really pull on that Jenga piece now can we?



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