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Fallow & Sika deer to be possibly re classified as...Vermin???

  • 26-01-2026 02:54PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭


    Anyone been following this? It seems our PTB want to reclassify Sika and Fallow as a non native invasive species. I belive there will a piece on this on Mooney goes Wild tonight at 19:00 on RTE radio.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭horse7


    Sooner the better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Urgent Call to Action for Ireland’s Deer Stalkers!
    We are writing to you with deep concern and a heavy sense of responsibility. Recent Government actions—through Statutory Instrument No. 374/2024—pose an unprecedented threat to Ireland’s wild deer and to the future of sustainable, ethical deer management in this country. While we have known about this SI for some time, in recent days we have seen testing of the waters from government.

    The Government has chosen to classify Fallow and Sika deer as Invasive Alien Species, a designation normally relevant as a prevention measure or species who have been recently discovered. This is despite their centuries-long presence in Ireland and their naturalised role in our landscape since 1184 and 1860 respectively. This reclassification paves the way for deer to be treated not as valued wildlife, but as vermin—an approach that is both scientifically unfounded and morally unacceptable.

    The consequences are stark and deeply troubling:

    • Potential eradication measures for which no humane or practical methods exist.
    • The possible removal of existing open seasons, jeopardising all sustainable deer management.
    • The risk of rushed unscientific decisions driven by misinformation rather than ecological reality.

    This is a moment that demands unity, urgency, and strong collective action.

    We urgently ask each of our members to contact their local TDs and Senators. Your voice matters—your first-hand knowledge, your experience on the ground, and your commitment to ethical wildlife stewardship carry enormous weight.

    Please use the link below to find contact details for your local representatives or to contact all TDs directly, we have also included a link to suggested text for your email, and a website link to share this information at the bottom of the post.

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/contact-us/

    Tell them:

    • To raise this matter with Ministers Christopher O’Sullivan and James Browne and seek an urgent meeting with the Irish Deer Commission and other relevant stakeholders.
    • That eradication is neither achievable nor humane.
    • Ask that the lawful EU Derogation is applied to this SI.
    • That Ireland already has a functioning, science-based management system.
    • That SI 374/2024 threatens wildlife welfare, public trust, and Ireland’s conservation reputation.

    Every message counts. The future of Ireland’s wild deer now depends on immediate, collective action.

    Thank you for standing with us at this critical moment.

    Irish Deer Commission

    http://irishdeercommission.ie/urgent-call-to-action-for-irelands-deer-stalkers/

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 259 ✭✭TheEngineer1


    Fallow deer too? What will this mean for deer kept in Parks?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Good question..Esp if you consider the Phoenix park deer herd.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 136 ✭✭alex90


    It's sika only to the best of my knowledge



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    The Government has chosen to classify Fallow and Sika deer as Invasive Alien Species. From the Irish Deer Society….So I guess…

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 136 ✭✭alex90


    Deer commission have refuted that and reiterated its sika only. Disappointing that this level of misinformation is being thrown about



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 922 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Deer Alliance/HCAP website. Guess they are misinformed too?

    http://deeralliance.ie/blog/call-to-action-on-invasive-non-native-designations-for-fallow-and-sika/

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 259 ✭✭TheEngineer1


    Read the SI, it says both Sika and Fallow



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,602 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    If they are to be classed as vermin, will it change the necessary rules to shoot them (i.e calibre, need for HCAP etc)?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 259 ✭✭TheEngineer1


    No, that is still covered by the wildlife act. It will likely mean a full year round open season on males and females



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 136 ✭✭alex90


    My mistake



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 259 ✭✭TheEngineer1


    https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2024/si/374/made/en/print

    SI for those who need it, fallow deer listed right next to Sika as "invasive alien species"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    Great news to hear the numbers need to be controlled and a big cull to solve the problem. They have got totally out of control and are vermin when not native.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 259 ✭✭TheEngineer1


    Hard disagree. With all this talk of trying to increase biodiversity, the increase of deer habitat is probably the best thing to come out of the forestry policy implented in this country for the last 50 years.

    Now that this increased habitat range has produced tangible gains in biodiversity in the form of deer spreading around the country when traditionally they would have been confined to very small ranges, our first instinct is to shoot them all.

    I personally would hate to see deer relegated from valued and protected game species to vermin to be shot on sight which seems to be the line that farmers and the media are peddling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭ESetter


    I reckon with the numbers of deer being shot at the moment we wont have a deer problem in a few years. Game dealer telling me he has never taken in so much deer. Huge numbers being exported to UK and Continent. Definitely a few hotspots around the country but I reckon that the extensions to the seasons will eventually reduce numbers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 295 ✭✭kunekunesika


    Hard to see how fallow fall in there?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 259 ✭✭TheEngineer1


    They were brought here by the Normans and so aren't native. The Normans also brought rabbits and hedgehogs but don't think we'll be seeing them on the list somehow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,091 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The problem with Sika is they inter breed with red deer. They are now a significant issue. When I was growing up in Kerry you never saw deer. Now farms around where I lived are inundated with them. They have actually became usedvto seeing humans. To reduce numbers will take a significant culls.

    Thanks for the link. I will write as well.in support of the cull. Its important it goes ahead.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 259 ✭✭TheEngineer1


    The problem is that there is no census of deer or studies being done on deer density on which to base a cull. There is just news articles saying deer numbers are increasing but no actual data backing this up. What are deer densities at currently? What do we want deer densities to be? How many deer will be needed to be shot to achieve these more desirable densities? We don't know any of these things. Instead we are walking into a system whereby a bounty is being put on wild animals and where every Tom Dick and Harry with a gun will financially incentivised to go out and massacre everything that moves. It goes against every principle of ethical hunting and conservation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,091 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    But this is not totally about deer numbers its about an Invasive species that is causing serious issues. The Sika deer interbreed's with red deer and breeds. As well I believe I read that they breed at an earlier age. While both can breed at 16ish months of age Sika deer hinds breed in substantially higher numbers while reds only really start to breed after theyare two year olds.

    A census is a handy way for a sectors that do not agree with a policy to delay it. We have seen it in the bird census/count where crow numbers have exploded while the census has being ongoing o er the last 5+years to the detriment of our song bird population. However as Sika are an Invasive species its not applicable here.

    As well as a my brother said they are so numerous he could shoot them out the window of his house if he was so inclined

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,390 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    That's fascinating. Is there a list or book or something showing what species were brought in and when?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,091 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Just a point on Fallow deer. They cannot inter breed with either Red or Sika as they are of a different Genus( genitics).

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 259 ✭✭TheEngineer1


    "I believe I read" and "my brother said" are not statements on which we should be basing wildlife management policy and this is the problem. If there are areas where deer numbers are so high that they are impacting agricultural output significantly then a management plan should be made for that area and it should be specific, targeted, and based on data that can be quantified.

    If we allow news articles and lobbying groups to dictate deer management policy then it won't be long before the last Sika deer in Ireland is shot. And then we can call pat ourselves in the back for eradicating yet another species on this island while championing biodiversity. It's a tragic fallacy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 136 ✭✭alex90


    There's no evidence of reds and sika interbreeding in kerry as of yet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Add to that magpies and pheasents and Ivy plants.Grey squirrels and Sika are a Victorian later addition.

    But all in all how long does an animal have to be here before it is considerd native? As said without a survey of actual numbers in the 26 counties we can't say exactly how many deer there are per county level and what should be an ideal number. .Also deer dont obligeingly stay in one area and I have a theory about these so called hotspots. What happens if say I see in one part of the country as a farmer see a herd of 40 odd deer on my fields and four days later maybe 2 miles down the road I'm chatting with a neighbour who says he had the more or less same amount on his land,and a week later another lad says he had the same amount,more or less visiting his place? Add a couple of other locals in a 10/20? km area. Conclusion the place is over run with deer and it needs culling! When in fact all of us have been looking at the same herd of fourty! But because maybe four people saw +/- 40 deer the number count is 160 +/-deer for a 10/20kilometer area in an Irish county. Hence to be anyway effective a cull needs numbers to deploy people effectively, esp with our approved shooting methodology here.

    Also, next question,what are we going to do with all this venison?I don't belive for an instant that there is a massive Uk/EU mainland demand either,considering they have their own hunters and quite frankly a much more scientific methodology of numbers counts and game management and culling and harvesting than our Wild west situation here. Plus,if NZ apprently can supply both Aldi and Lidil with farm raised venison that is culled for the velvet off the antlers which is used in Chinese medicine throughout the EU.I cant see how and where we are going to dispose of it?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 164 ✭✭Rescueme0007


    Well I just read the legislation 374/2024 and it does indeed list both Sika and Fallow as alien invasive.

    Yet under the Wildlife Act 1976 and subordinate legislation the hunting of such species has a clearly delineated "open season". The other caveats still apply, one hour before and after sunrise/sunset etc., Lamping prohibited, unless authorised by S42 license. So it's NOT a free for all.

    It is very paradoxical categorising them as alien invasive yet affording specific protections. (Not a surprise given the intellect of most of our elected representatives). Of course all the Minister needs to do is have them removed from the protections of the next "Open seasons" order and they would be in the same situation as Foxes and rabbits.

    I would imagine that would have a significant impact as it would no longer be necessary to get a deer Licence from the NPWS, thus no requirement for HCAP or similar training course to be completed, but shooting them would still constitute a "good reason" for the purpose of applying for a firearms licence, presumably the normal requirements for a rifle would also disappear and they could be targeted with shotguns. It does NOT paint a pretty picture and would be inhumane.



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