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Reversing Dependence on England & Financial and other Entanglements

  • 13-12-2025 06:52PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭


    Over the past twenty five years Ireland has built up layers of interdependence with England and with European financial front offices through the IFSC and elsewhere. Some of this was supposedly inevitable, but I think we’re now at a point where the balance is unhealthy.

    Many Irish citizens have built lives in England. Married couples and families are of course part of our shared story, but beyond that we’ve tied ourselves into too many connections that weaken our own national fabric. Shouldn’t we be thinking about how to bring more of our people home, to strengthen communities here rather than abroad?

    The IFSC has been a back‑office hub while London and other European centres hold the front offices. That leaves us exposed. How do we disentangle without collapsing jobs? Is there a way to freeze out over‑reliance on London while building genuine Irish capacity?

    What methods exist to start reversing this inter‑country dependence? Can we design policies that encourage return migration, while also shifting financial institutions to root more of their decision‑making here?

    I’m not suggesting hostility or cutting off married couples and families — they’re part of our shared civic life. But I do think we need to talk openly about how to reduce entanglements that leave us vulnerable, and how to build a stronger, more self‑reliant Ireland.



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,480 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    what?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,919 ✭✭✭✭con747


    Stop sending them Christmas cards, that will show them damn relatives.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭Enduro


    So what about kids with one Irish parent, one English parent, and joint nationaity? Execution?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,013 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    But I do think we need to talk openly about how to reduce entanglements that leave us vulnerable

    vulnerable to what, exactly?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭nachouser


    Something, something, brown people.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,420 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    …to Christmas cards…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,919 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    we absolutely do need to move as far away from the UK politically and economically as we can do so, but while northern ireland remains occupied it will only be able to go so far and that will be, well not hugely far.
    but it has to happen, especially as things over there go to pot and the far right rises.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,480 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    been happening for decades now. We abandoned the link to sterling, our proportion of trade to uk has dropped massively and continues to do so. While it’s important we build an economy not dependent on the uk, they’re still our neighbours and a global power. Apart from the inconveniences the effect of brexit has been remarkably limited on Ireland. Could argue it’s brought some positives in some areas. Dreadful for themselves though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭Daft Punk -


    This is about reducing risks associated with brexit an incoming Farage government and wave of populism and far right sentiment in the UK right now and for the mid to longer term foreseeable future.

    That includes immigration risks and border/trade risks as well as free movement risks. But the main purpose behind this is to reduce reliance and dependence on them in the financial sector.

    Finally, to bring home, family who are over there particularly sectors like nursing where we are badly in need of bringing our nurses home from there after many emigrating there in recent deacades. This applies as well as Australia and Canada Germany wherever the gen z’ers have emigrated. They deserve to do thier years abroad but come home if they want to.

    Just a thought for Xmas, maybe contorversial but not meant in a negative light to anyone who is there or has family here or there, and wants to continue their interdependence with them. I think there is an undercurrent of nationalism in the country right now and perhaps I misread that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,688 ✭✭✭yagan


    There's no doubt that English far right yobs influence our easily influenced nutjobs, but that's as much us not regulating the likes of Facebook etc..

    Anyway our trade with the world continues to overtake our trade with Britain. In the beginning of the Free State nearly 90% of our exports went to Britain, now that hovers between low teens and sometimes single digit.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,260 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    "they’re still our neighbours and a global power."

    Lol it is a long time since the UK was a Global power.

    They might have the legacy of it but China is more powerful than them now.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,919 ✭✭✭✭con747


    So you reckon the UK is not a global power? Google is your friend.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,373 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I would consider the xenophobia a poor choice of "thought for Xmas".

    If you want us to come back, you're going to have to offer something. Galway and Cork are almost as expensive as London with much less to offer. If Ireland becomes more affordable, let me know and we'll talk. Otherwise, I'll be staying put.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭Daft Punk -


    What I wrote is not xenophobic and it’s not meant to be xenophobic. Xenophobia means hostility, fear, or prejudice toward people from other countries. My posts are not xenophobic. They’re nationalist in tone, but nationalism and xenophobia are not the same thing. 

    My two posts are focused on Ireland’s economic dependence on London and Europe, the risks of Brexit and far‑right politics in the UK, and the idea of encouraging Irish emigrants to return home. I explicitly say I’m not suggesting hostility toward families or individuals from abroad.

    You’re  saying “make Ireland livable and we’ll consider returning” that’s part of what I’m getting at. Maybe taking back a bit of control from London in finance. 

    In terms of our nurses I was at a staff Xmas party in one of the hospitals recently and the respect I have for those people is just immeasurable. They work 12 to 15 hour days some of them, give up their Christmases and love Ireland a fiercely.

    To bring the Sydney and uk swathes of emigrants, who are nurses, home, would be a big win for us, but I would like to see us to step up the campaign, such as sending out scouts and union reps to physically meet them and male them come back. 

    It needs an intensity and ferocity to move them back that they feel there is urgent need now like an emergency. There isn’t, but that sort of urgency is needed. The environment has to be right here also. Housing, water and electricity etc. 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,052 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    The Commission wanted to reduce dependence on the UK, but encountered blowback from member states.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,373 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    "Male them come back"? You mean make? How does this work, exactly? Will we be bundled into vans and ferried back? What's the plan here?

    You haven't explained how Ireland is dependent on London either. You just said that it is and are spouting some incoherent narrative about reducing the alleged dependence.

    We're not cargo. We're human beings. There is no "urgent need". You clearly resent immigration and immigrants and this just looks like a weak argument to avoid this looking like what it is.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭Daft Punk -


    I know people who urgently want their loved ones home. That is all I’m saying. We need to aggressively go after them, with the help of personal networks, to help convince these people to come home. That is the point and jist of this post. And no the sentiment of the post isn’t anti immigration or about immigration in any way. It’s focusing on the risks presented by incoming British governments. That includes but is not solely based on immigration.

    I wanted this thread to be about coming home for Xmas and maybe pre-emptively titled the thread about financial ties and finance. While I don't want to get into an extended discussion on that, I want to say if there is ways to increase independence on that front then we should aggressively do that.

    I know the UK is a good partner to have on entertainment, and the arts, but I think we could do better, diversifying elsewhere on that front, and actively trying to help our artists find new markets to ply their trades to help prevent overreliance and control.

    I know some people who are there under false pretenses, or have fallen victim to predatory employers, in other industries. I personally am trying to convince family to come home but need help.

    In terms of London and banking, the IFSC is a pseudo finance arms of the Republic which, in effect, has put us in handcuffs in terms of executing our own banking policy and management decisions. Everything is decided from over there. If there is ways to move that decision making and capital here, here then I endorse those ideas. One could be to bring in more American banks real estate arms, incubation hubs and VC firms here.

    I know that might be controversial in terms of the term vulture funds being used,but my point is about sovereignty. If London dominates our capital flows, one way to rebalance is to bring funds on these shores from the States and elsewhere, backing ventures and decision making here, and not being reliant or subservient to our neighbours.

    Personally speaking, I'm an entrepreneur at heart and that's my background and know bringing in banks is controversial but I'm not advocating making Ireland a finance capital just more independent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,373 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    And once again you've completely dodged the question, akin to what one might expect from someone peddling a conspiracy theory.

    The only Irish people who return home are the ones who can afford it. The fact that you don't seem concerned about that at all suggests that this is just another tedious anti-immigration thread.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭Daft Punk -


    Edit. I was going to say the daily mail were taking over the Irish Times. Which was a inaccurate depiction. But still selling off assets nonetheless.

    Post edited by Daft Punk - on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,258 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It's the same absolute gobdaw "thinking" that was behind decentralisation.

    They forget they're not talking about numbers on a spreadsheet that can be moved from column A to column B. They are people, with families, friends, and much more that can't just be uprooted on a political whim.

    Who is? And selling what?

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,688 ✭✭✭yagan


    The thread title is actually misleading in that we have never really reversed our drift from the UK since first attaining independence. Today we learn that we're buying a military radar system from France which makes sense considering out membership of PESCO.

    I do think we're underserved in our language education by spending way too much on enforcing a language that most teacher can't even communicate whereas even the basic oral knowledge of French, German and Spanish will actually be far easier to embed, even for non native teachers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭Daft Punk -


    ”who is and selling what”

    The Irish times is selling off Waterford WLR fm to Daily Mail group. I didn’t like the idea of British media known for sensationalism and political manipulation drawing Irish listeners into its orbit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,258 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The Irish Times got that when they took over the Examiner. They don't own any other radio stations so it doesn't fit in with their business.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭Daft Punk -


    I’m trying to make sense of something that’s been bothering me for a while about identity and belonging. I lived in England for about five years, roughly twenty years ago, and I have close family members who’ve been there for over fifteen years. What I’m wondering is: does that kind of long-term exposure compromise us in any meaningful way—ethically, nationally, culturally, or even spiritually?

    Does time spent living in another country, especially one with such a complicated historical relationship to Ireland, change us by default? Does it make us “less Irish” in some way, even if we have no English ties through marriage, blood, or close friendships? Under older, more rigid ideas of loyalty—where crossing to “the other side” was treated as betrayal—would we be seen as having defected simply by living there too long?

    I’m asking whether people in that situation are considered fully reintegrated when they return. Are we viewed as somehow tainted or influenced, or is that an outdated way of thinking? Can someone who has lived abroad be “brought back into the fold,” so to speak, without suspicion or stigma?

    There’s also a broader question about how different cultures treat this. In some places, leaving and returning is normal and accepted. In others, it’s seen as a kind of disloyalty. I’m trying to understand which mindset applies here today, and whether political parties especially by Sinn Fein who may have deemed being gone for so long, punishable by death people for leaving the country for such long periods, and being under suspicion by merely disowning any part in the struggle, or cultural groups in Ireland still view long-term time in Britain through an older, more adversarial lens.

    Ultimately, I’m asking how Irish society sees people who have lived in England for significant periods. Are we simply returning emigrants, or is there still a sense—however subtle—that we’ve crossed an invisible line?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,373 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,052 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    We are still too reliant on the UK for financial services, but so is the EU. We do need to reduce that dependence, especially with the continuing decline of Brexit Britain. UK Financial services have a carve out on the TCA which is why they havent collapsed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    1930s called and want it's autarky back. That policy ended in the 1950s with a near collapse of the Irish state. It's not simply financial services. Ireland is completely dependent on the British mainland for reliable energy supply (gas, diesel, petrol, electricity). Londons pursuit of net zero policies is shrinking their energy production and they in turn have become more dependent on other countries in mainland Europe and the USA. Energy is another aspect of our dependence on external economies and their governments policies that only serve to drive up the price of energy with knock-on cost push inflation across the board (energy, food & transport).

    Another risk for us is the EUs ever increasing regulatory overhead on Irish state legislation, it has essentially relegated Irelands Dail to the metaphorical status of county council. We (Irish population) did that to ourselves and gave up autonomy when we went back a second time and approved those treaties (Lisbon & Nice). We are caught in international trade tariff wars such as the EU carbon border adjustment (CBAM) that will as an sectoral example drive up construction costs further. Put simply our options to maneuver are limited without risking confrontation with the EU.

    There are ~2.8 million people in employment in Ireland, ~2.4 million private sector and ~400,000 public sector. That on paper an impressive turnaround on previous decades performance. On the whole globalization has been good for us in Ireland. There are swings and roundabouts, Employment in the IT sector has fallen (mainly American tech sector MNCs, as has employment in the wholesale and retail trade and administrative and support services. Employment growth has been in construction and health sectors.

    Outside of external sectoral risk factors such as the financial services which we exercise no control, the domestic problem is structural. Primarily Irelands infrastructure is bottle-necked and cannot accommodate expansion, operating costs are rising across the board as a consequence of a combination of policies. Many MNCs have stopped investing here outside of Pharma and are sweating their existing assets, the consequence is not visible right away in employment, it will become apparent over the next 5 to 8 years as employment declines in those sectors and the benefits from todays investment are elsewhere.

    The question to ask is what drives productivity of Irish workers in the financial services sector? Investment (and by extension employment) will be driven by expected future returns.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭Daft Punk -


    So I just want to reiterate all this stuff above about banks - it's not me. I want to lessen their influence not increase it. And I certainly don't want more headquarters here. It's not what we are. I want to stress I am more the unions and nurses.

    I don't want to divulge too much information but I was good at Economics and sort of fell sideways into it. My priorities have changed where I want to place my energy into that and into entrepreneurship. That is and always was my goal.

    Having said that, I will never seek to prevent or withhold through political means or thought processes, any justified compensation or income any worker or business owner is owed. What I mean, is that, I don't resent or want to limit anyone else’s success. People deserve fair pay for the work they do, at every income level. Hope that clarifies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 129 ✭✭The Venus Project


    Yes - I have a funny anecdote about how the relationship between our two countries can get entangled and now I'm trying to play my part and release that, for people in this country, but also myself. I feel really bad - I bullied a guy when I was in junior school because he had an English accent. I guess I got caught up in a spirit because i wasn't the only one. But I want to stress that's not an excuse.

    I went to England to study and got completely destroyed by a large group of Brits singing "no surrender to the IRA" on several occasions in an attempt to intimidate. But I take ownership for the bullying myself and my own part in it. That kid left this country long ago but now he is successful and I am struggling a bit.

    I suppose I deserve it, in some great karmic sense, but I hope he can find it in his heart to release any bad feelings and forgive me. I don't want any blocks on my life, I hope this can serve to release any bad feelings, if he or anyone who resonates, identifies with this.

    I hope this is a rational explanation of how the ties can become difficult between the two countries. It's all bullying, and we need adults to resolve these issues.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 129 ✭✭The Venus Project


    I am sorry for dumping all my trauma and pain on this site in the last message. I have had a rigorous religious upbringing, which I am now releasing. I am a rationalist now, and have been for the past while, however still believe in my/the collective unconscious. I will try and be more mentally hygienic going forward.



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